Do we have to pray in Afrikan languages to Afrikan deities?

This topic is raised as a sort of poll slash commentary concerning the importance or unimportance of speaking in Afrikan languages. There are various opinions concerning this. Though this topic os for all unapologetically Afrikan people on this board I would like to especially hear from pracitioners and initiated priests concerning this. I pray that this topic can help in the restoration and liberation that this forum is aimed to do.

Things to consider: Does an Afrikan deity hear prayers in other languages? Is it true what many Babalawo and Orisa priests say when they say that Orunmila and Esu overstand all languages? I invite all healthy commentary on this subject.

Oda

This is a topic that I find many practioners of Afrikan traditions tend to avoid. Unfortunately there are a great number of initiated priests who will say that the language doesn't matter. I always found it odd that those same priests would never pour libation to the deities in this bastard dialect English but would then say the deities understand all languages. :-?

With that being said my spirit showed me that I would indeed need to learn at least one Afrikan language to be able to communicate properly with the deities. If I am at an akom and I have no clue about Twi how will I properly receive the messages I need to hear from the Abosom. I would then be dependent on a third party to translate.

I feel that if we are committed to learning about the deities and how to properly worship them then language is key for communication.

[Baba_Ogunmola]

E pele O!

I think it depends on who you are and what your road dictates. I feel like the Orisa understand your needs,sentiments and struggles regardless of the language that you bring it in. Many times when Blacks are trying to reconnect, many times one of things we are struggling with is our dept of reconnection. So to fully embrace your new culture (which includes language) takes time. To embrace a new culture is a direct contradiction to our many years of believing that American culture is supreme and that we are Americans. We have twenty, thirty forth plus years of mess to clean up. I believe that if a person needs the language, and they are in relationships that require accountability, they will be advised in due time.

Humility, and good character are not bound by language. Most of the Black Africans that I know are being / have been told at different times what is required as far as language goes. Many of us are the first on this side of the water to return and as such we have to study African language very seriously.

I believe that accountability is a big issue. Especially when you are trying to talk to someone about standards etc..

Pele o Ogunmola.

I feel some of your points but I have to ask everyone here certain questions. For instance I do not speak Japanese. Therefore, if you spoke japanese to me I may be able to assume something or GLEAN what you are trying to say by your body movements and expressions. Still, I do not know what you are really saying.

Christianity and Western culture postulates such false ideology about universal spirit. What I am addressing here is their distorted idea of such a concept. Them being a people of no culture at all have to postulate a bunch of fake ideas about "god hears all prayers, ..." blah blah. Our Ancestors never taught that and I have learned when you see that within the Orisa tradition that is was certainly an interpolation of foreign indoctrination.

Back to the analogy about me not speaking japanese. If you call me a name that was even equivalent to what the Yoruba name Awotunde means in japanese I would not answer or turn around because I would not know who you are talking to. These deities walked the earth and NEVER spoke english (which was not around) or any other non-Afrikan language. Our language are sacred. And for a lack of a better term there are certain aspects of our languages when it comes to prayer that are "liturgical". What we have done in this tradition is allow many excuses for not moving forward full steam. The statement "The Orisa understand all languages" does not come from an Afrikan center. The only reason that the Odu are translated to english is for people to overstand. Personally, I have NEVER prayed to an Afrikan deity in english. How was I able to navigate not "knowing" Yoruba or Fon. I READ THE PRAYERS ORIGINALLY. Even the ones that were taught to me I would write them down so that I could read them until I knew them in spirit and would not have to use a piece of paper.

I am not trying to down play anyone's opinion. I just feel it is time for us to stop making excuses for anything that is less than true Afrikan liberation. The awo of Ifa, the Okomfo of the Abosom, the Bokonon of the Vodun tradition, kwk should REALLY be on it better when it comes to language. And I overstand we are in this country and have been cut off. What I am directly addressing is how people consciously reject the importance of Afrikan language verses buckling down and learning along the way.

odabo

[Baba_Ogunmola]

I really would like us to also talk about accountability. I think *that 's were you will find more of a concrete solution to resolve this issue. Because I would have to ask you questions about what communities these initiated priest come from and the objectives of the communities in question. Let me know if you remember.

As far as your Japanese example, I think our history here is somewhat different. *Many of the first generation enslaved Africans spoke little to no English and did not pray in English until they were coersed or forced to do so. Today, we not only have African Ancestors who were born in Africa and we also have African Ancestors who were born in America and spoke only English. *When I pray to African deities, I do the best that I can. What I know in Yoruba I say. What I only know in English I say in english. And I communicate with the most recently departed all the way back to the most ancient. And they all communicate with me. The ancient Egun don't hold out because I asked a question in English. The Egun have been with me since I was born. They did not leave me hanging all these years waiting until I signed up for the online Yoruba Class. My very first prayers to the Egun were all English. Your experience starting out is different from mines. I had no African language material at all. But it was a great experience for me.

Everyone has to answer that question based on who they claim to be, what their destiny dictates and where they are on that path. *Give people time to grow and experience some things. If African speaking initiates continue to represent well, attitudes will continue to shift. We don't have to argue with them over technique, just show and prove.

I have often heard that Orunmila is a master linguist. Of course we have to be careful to use this in its right context.

[Baba_Ogunmola]

Do we have to pray in African languages to African deities? Who are you accountable to? If you are not interested in praying in African languages, what are the objectives of your organization?

The answers to these questions depend on who one claims to represent. And the most important thing is that people be who they claim to be. If we claim to be in support of African liberation / African cultural restoration, then yes we should pray in African languages. In fact, we, should speak to each other using African language and use these languages to understand the African worldview of whatever African culture we claim to represent.

But our traditional African cultures are being infiltrated by people who do not share our goals and aspirations of freedom and self sufficiency. These people are being initiated for personal reasons, no African nationalist ambitions what so ever. It would be much better if these initiated individuals forgo learning African languages (regardless of color). I would not try to convince them otherwise. It's cool with me as long as they are upfront about who they are and their ambitions.

I want Black Africans to be able to easily differenciate between the African liberation / African cultural restoration team and the others. Our use of the culture as a whole (language, dress, who we initiate etc..) will set us apart from the rest. Let them do it their way, everyone has that right. If they are honest about their objectives, then people will know how to engage them.

Our team has to continue to produce greatness in the name of African liberation / African cultural restoration. Like they say in the Nation, people don't recognize a dirty glass until you place a clean glass next to it.

[olufemi_baina_ayo]

Our African deities did not speak the Euro-trash languages,they spoke in the ancient languages of Mother Africa! To commune with our ancestors,we must speak the languages.








[smiley=sankofa.gif]

E pele O

I pretty much agree with Olufemi's very short and to the point comment.

OGUNMOLA, you made the following statement:

But our traditional African cultures are being infiltrated by people who do not share our goals and aspirations of freedom and self sufficiency. These people are being initiated for personal reasons, no African nationalist ambitions what so ever. It would be much better if these initiated individuals forgo learning African languages (regardless of color). I would not try to convince them otherwise. It's cool with me as long as they are upfront about who they are and their ambitions.

Can you explain to me by what you mean when you say in your statement "REGARDLESS OF COLOR"? This would help me in my response. Oh yeah, and please break down to me why you state it would be much better if these initiated individuals did forgo learning Afrikan languages.

I await your response.

odabo

[ajaguna]

I agree with what many have said. For me its a matter of doing the best you can. When you know better, do better. It needs to be the goal of every African to reclaim and restore our languages. Traditional practitioners especially need to be concerned with learning fluently the language of their tradition/traditions. At the same time we do not need to wait until we can say everything we want to in Twi, Yoruba, or Kikongo before we speak to our ancestors, deities, and other spirits. They have never left us. They have never ceased to hear us. It is our birthright. That's why when egun, orisa, abosom, mmoetia, etc. Come down they speak english most of the time. Because its necessary if we are to understand them. This doesn't mean that we need to do away with our study of our languages. In fact for me it intensifies my study. I want to get to where the bosom speak in Twi to me when they come down, and the Orisa in Yoruba! We just got to recognize that real healing and ReAfrikanization happen gradually. In the mean time we got to do the best we can.

[Afua]

Yep. Beyond my prayers, I have to speak in english. And sometimes when I have to add some extra to the prayer (ya know when I need the extra blessings) I gotta say that in english too. I have a hard time believing that cosmic forces such as the Orisa have a hard time understanding english. As Ajaguna pointed out - when Orisa do speak to me - I PRAY they speak to me in english/"ebonics" or somthing cuz if they want to relay something to me and they say it in Yoruba - I'm in a shitload of trouble.

This is not to say that Afrikan people should not attempt to learn the language. Being Afrikan is a process and learning the language is a process too. In the meantime, that extra that I want to add on to my prayers that I don't have the Yoruba for it's gonna be in english until otherwise.

Afua