Is the Afrikan-centered movement dead?

[Obadele Kambon]

Just so y'all know, @asarhondo just deleted his account. If he can't be the authority and decide on 60%, he'll not be around. I think this is how his idea of African-centered authoritarianism works. And who knew that 10 percentage points meant so much?

[Asentwaa]

Just so y'all know, @asarhondo just deleted his account. If he can't be the authority and decide on 60%, he'll not be around. I think this is how his idea of African-centered authoritarianism works. And who knew that 10 percentage points meant so much?

I dont believe it! I was really looking forward to his response aswell as I was thinking maybe he could teach me something new. I think it was the brown skin comment that did it.

[Obadele Kambon]

I dont believe it! I was really looking forward to his response aswell as I was thinking maybe he could teach me something new. I think it was the brown skin comment that did it.

That brotha knows good and well that he's (barely) brown-skinned. Maybe in his imagination he's dark-skinned. I think he may have gone to morocco or algeria and gotten all gassed up.
I think it's his staunch opposition to half-castes, mulattos and all things half-and-half whereas here we let them decide their side.

[Yaw Asare Aboagye]

During the discussion I was just thinking of all the Afrikans (or who I think are Afrikans that according to his definition wouldn't be) that made significant contributions to our liberation that wouldn't make the cut.

[Obadele Kambon]

During the discussion I was just thinking of all the Afrikans (or who I think are Afrikans that according to his definition wouldn't be) that made significant contributions to our liberation that wouldn't make the cut.

I was thinking the same thing. And also about all of the rubbish people (meaning clarence thomas and condoleeza rice amongst others) who are good to go. Back to the drawing board on that one.

[Asentwaa]

During the discussion I was just thinking of all the Afrikans (or who I think are Afrikans that according to his definition wouldn't be) that made significant contributions to our liberation that wouldn't make the cut.

My sentiments exactly! Which then means if we take into account things like those who made significant contributions to our liberation as one of the strong determining factors as to who can be included or not, we are then moving our goal posts greatly according to social factors and less so by genotype and even phenotype, which I dont think there is anything necessarily wrong with. @Obadele Kambon comment about Condoleeza Rice needing to be excluded seems to back the social argument (i.e. what people mainly do as Afrikans should determine if they should be included etc) as opposed to the biological factors (genotype and phenotype). I am not saying we keep falling on social criteria exclusively, but I think over 50% of our criteria of inclusion of those on the lighter end of the spectrum relies on the social (The inclusion of those knee grows as you in the US call them (lol) is another discussion). R we then getting even a milimetre closer to defining an Afrikan based More on the social than the biological as criteria?

[Asentwaa]

In reference to the Fulani, some are also brown-skinned to dark brown-skinned (not light-skinned unless they have a white parent, in their case typically a-rab) but their facial structure and body type in addition to language and behavior (herding animals) lend to their categorization as Afrikan. To categorize Fulani as light-skinned is DEFINITELY to be working with a continental Afrikan scale because on a diaspora scale they'd be considered to be on the darker side of the spectrum see the google image search for the term fulani. You may be thinking of the Chadians whose children go begging on the street but these are not Fulani people and have a high-degree of a-rab mixture. The lebanese, who actually ARE lightskinned, are referred to oburoni based on the skin-tone and phenotype basis.

As we discussed yesterday at Capoeira brother Kwame, yes Fulanis or Fulas (As they call them in Sierra Leone) are often brown skinned and even dark skinned, but some are light skinned and I met a fair amount of lighter Fulas in Sierra Leone (perhaps they are generally darker in Ghana?) and I am definately not mixing them up with the Chadians as the lighter Fulas I met were generally darker than Chadians (and Chadians r closer to Arabs than Fulas). But contrary to what you said, Fulas can phenotypically range from typical African features to more Arab/European like ones, so maybe they mixed more with arabs in the upper guinea coastal region, so in SL, Fulas can be dark and more Afrikan looking, but if a person is generally light and/or has more Arab like features they will asume they are either biracial or Fula. My point with this was, though some Fulas can have lighter skin and more of a european phenotype, as soon as they are identified as Fula, then there is no question thet they R black Afrikans even in a country like SL where most people are dark. This has much to do with the fact that their behaviour, language etc is Afrikan. Even mixed people who always grew up in GH, act like people from GH and speak Twi or any other local lang r rarely referred to as Obroni. Our biracial GH actors are proof of that.

So where i was trying to go with this was that those black americans and caribbeans being called obroni all the time in GH is not just about their skin tone or phenotype. It is possible to stop being seen as, or become less obroni even if you are lighter skinned if you learned to speak a local language well and participated in Ghanaian activities and mixed with Ghanaians more etc, otherwise, yes you will always be seen as very different. I am not saying it is an obligation for people moving here to do this, I am just stating that there is a way out of Obroniness and it is not solely determined by phenotype. My light skinned auntie from Belize who will retire here soon from LA with my Ghanaian uncle is undergoing this transition and it is definately working. People relate to her quite differently than the first couple of times she came to GH. I do not doubt that the more she participates in our funerals, festivals and activities, take up certain roles in our family, dress in Ghanaian cloths, continue learning Twi etc etc. the Obroniness will gradually decrease (as it already has been).

Therefore, as i keep saying, if you have a minimum amount of genotypical and phenotypical blackness in you (whatever that minimum may be is for us to determine), there is ample space to socially construct yourself as black or Afrikan and be accepted,even on the continent and even if you are not initially recognised as Afrikan. We as Afrikans all over the world in fact rarely close our doors decidedly on those with some Afrikanness in them, unlike whites have always done (innit bro Kwame? ).

[Obadele Kambon]

My sentiments exactly! Which then means if we take into account things like those who made significant contributions to our liberation as one of the strong determining factors as to who can be included or not, we are then moving our goal posts greatly according to social factors and less so by genotype and even phenotype, which I dont think there is anything necessarily wrong with. @Obadele Kambon comment about Condoleeza Rice needing to be excluded seems to back the social argument (i.e. what people mainly do as Afrikans should determine if they should be included etc) as opposed to the biological factors (genotype and phenotype). I am not saying we keep falling on social criteria exclusively, but I think over 50% of our criteria of inclusion of those on the lighter end of the spectrum relies on the social (The inclusion of those knee grows as you in the US call them (lol) is another discussion). R we then getting even a milimetre closer to defining an Afrikan based More on the social than the biological as criteria?

Depends on who is doing the defining. Probably a combination of the two (social + phenotype/genotype). No matter how "Black" an ameripean acts, they're out. Although not all have that standard (see references to bill clinton as 'the first Black president', JA Rogers notwithstanding)

As we discussed yesterday at Capoeira brother Kwame, yes Fulanis or Fulas (As they call them in Sierra Leone) are often brown skinned and even dark skinned, but some are light skinned and I met a fair amount of lighter Fulas in Sierra Leone (perhaps they are generally darker in Ghana?) and I am definately not mixing them up with the Chadians as the lighter Fulas I met were generally darker than Chadians (and Chadians r closer to Arabs than Fulas). But contrary to what you said, Fulas can phenotypically range from typical African features to more Arab/European like ones, so maybe they mixed more with arabs in the upper guinea coastal region, so in SL, Fulas can be dark and more Afrikan looking, but if a person is generally light and/or has more Arab like features they will asume they are either biracial or Fula. My point with this was, though some Fulas can have lighter skin and more of a european phenotype, as soon as they are identified as Fula, then there is no question thet they R black Afrikans even in a country like SL where most people are dark. This has much to do with the fact that their behaviour, language etc is Afrikan. Even mixed people who always grew up in GH, act like people from GH and speak Twi or any other local lang r rarely referred to as Obroni. Our biracial GH actors are proof of that.

In terms of oburoni used in reference to those who are mixed, this term can be applied to them or even a jet Black person who has 1) been abroad for 1 week or more (aburokyire burgers) 2) as a term of endearment (see use in hi-life songs) 3) as a term of disparagement (see such references to former president JJ Rawlings) See this comment on Modern Ghana "SOMETIMES, JJ THINKS HIMSELF A WHITE MAN AND GETS INTO THE ILLUSION THAT HE HAS COLONISED GHANA. JJ, YOU FULANI !!!" Have Your Say on ModernGhana!!! Or this one: "Freedom of speech is one o fthe fundamental aspect of democracy and everybody as that right to exercise that right,oh including obroni Rawlings." http://www.modernghana.com/newsthread/123725/5/4394 or this one: "This man (Adabuga) is the most stupid Northner I have seen. How come he allows himself to be deceived by this bastard Obroni(Rawlings) to overthrown his tribeman (fellow Northner) Dr Liman." http://mobile.ghanaweb.com/wap/comme....php?ID=114972 Again, the context and the intent determines its usage. As ambivalent as Afrikan attitudes are towards actual white "people" as a love/hate thing, we find this in application of white 'people'-related terminology

So where i was trying to go with this was that those black americans and caribbeans being called obroni all the time in GH is not just about their skin tone or phenotype. It is possible to stop being seen as, or become less obroni even if you are lighter skinned if you learned to speak a local language well and participated in Ghanaian activities and mixed with Ghanaians more etc, otherwise, yes you will always be seen as very different. I am not saying it is an obligation for people moving here to do this, I am just stating that there is a way out of Obroniness and it is not solely determined by phenotype. My light skinned auntie from Belize who will retire here soon from LA with my Ghanaian uncle is undergoing this transition and it is definately working. People relate to her quite differently than the first couple of times she came to GH. I do not doubt that the more she participates in our funerals, festivals and activities, take up certain roles in our family, dress in Ghanaian cloths, continue learning Twi etc etc. the Obroniness will gradually decrease (as it already has been).

Therefore, as i keep saying, if you have a minimum amount of genotypical and phenotypical blackness in you (whatever that minimum may be is for us to determine), there is ample space to socially construct yourself as black or Afrikan and be accepted,even on the continent and even if you are not initially recognised as Afrikan. We as Afrikans all over the world in fact rarely close our doors decidedly on those with some Afrikanness in them, unlike whites have always done (innit bro Kwame? ).

I understand where you're going and at the same time, again, it's context. You're certainly correct at our rarely closing our doors as we find in continental (and diasporan) Africans referring to dutch boers as "south Africans" or taking east indians born/raised in Kenya as Kenyans or a-rabs in north Afrika for that matter. Just look at Kwame Nkrumah. I find that for most continental Africans, location trumps everything else while, for diasporans (at least those with sense), location is the least important variable.

[Yaw Agbede]

My last point is on the use of the word Obroni that @Obadele Kambon mentiona. Again I think even that is complicated here in GH because my darkskinned friend who is Ghanaian and cannot speak Twi but grew up in Germany also stated that he has been called Obroni once. Yes only once so that does not mean he is ever really seen as Obroni, but Obroni does not always directly mean people see you as a white person (hence Obroni kokoo/fitaa marks the white people off from the blacks. Also bro Obadele, what about the term Obibini Buroni? [African Oburoni or African from overseas, meaning African American or African European], see Dolphyne's comprenhensive Twi book). It can signify how much a person perceives that you are westernised or not because Obroni occasionally refers to a person from the West too. So a lighter skinned black diasporan could become less obroni if they understood the language and behaved and spoke like a Ghanaian/Afrikan. A dark skinned Ghanaian person (who is definitely not seen as white) could be seen as more Obroni in the westernised sense of the word the less Ghanaian he/she behaves and if he/she does not speak their local language etc., so it really is not just the skin tone, hair texture or facial features. After all, many of the Fulani in Afrika are light skinned, but they are never seen as Obroni because they behave like Afrikans and speak Afrikan languages, so again maybe we give too much weight to biological categories when social factors influence the perceptions of even those of us on the continent to a large degree.

Greetings @Asentwaa. I have had several conversations with continental Afrikans about their perceptions of diasporan Afrikans who come to the continent. One of the things that I have been told repeatedly is that there is a preconceived perception of diaspora Afrikans that, even if they do not say or do anything foreign, they are identified by their posture, their walk, facial expressions, kwk and many times these are the determining factors in them being labeled "oburoni." Berɛ a metuu kwan akɔ Ghana na akwadaa bi frɛɛ me oburoni. Mewɔ hɔ a na mekaa Twi kasa nko ara na mehyɛɛ abibifoɔ ntadeɛ nko ara na medii abibifoɔ aduane no nko ara. Akwadaa frɛɛ me oburoni nanso ɔsom aborɔfo no bɔne-yɔ-deɛ na ɔkaa kyerɛɛ me sɛ yɛfrɛ no "stephen"... Just wanted to add my 2000 cowries.


But to answer the question I do not think the Afrikan-centered movement is dead, but that it has become disgracefully complacent and shamefully comfortable in our current state.

[Yaw Asare Aboagye]

But to answer the question I do not think the Afrikan-centered movement is dead, but that it has become disgracefully complacent and shamefully comfortable in our current state.

@Ahku Disgracefully complacent and shamefully comfortable as compared to what specifically? I am not necessarily disagreeing with you here but I'd like to know what you're comparing this current era to.