I found this interesting. Something for ALL of us to think about when talking about panKmtywism and Kmtyw liberation/decolonization.
https://thenib.com/the-hotep-problem?t=recent (https://thenib.com/the-hotep-problem?t=recent)
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As a student of history I think it's best to do research to understand what the people themselves said or practiced on matters. There is a book by Manu Ampim that discusses the lecture model and its flaws and the "playas" that use this to advance motives. A good read. I would suggest to study/read/read more....my take humbly
Looks like a diversion. :meiafrente:
QuoteObadele Kambon;198361 wrote: Looks like a diversion. :meiafrente:
It may be more than that. It may be a means of making the study of Kemetic culture off-putting for the unknowing.
QuoteHeru Djet;198373 wrote: It may be more than that. It may be a means of making the study of Kemetic culture off-putting for the unknowing.
I agree that on a collective level it may mean more than that. I was speaking more on an individual level in that even responding to this thread twice has diverted my time away from doing the work.
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QuoteObadele Kambon;198467 wrote: I agree that on a collective level it may mean more than that. I was speaking more on an individual level in that even responding to this thread twice has diverted my time away from doing the work.
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That is something that I can truly understand. I saw someone who got embroiled in a debate with someone who has made a t-shirt mis-representing the meaning of Htp. The shirt's designer proved disinterested in the problematics of the misuse of this term. This was, as you said, a diversion from time better spent working towards our collective betterment.
QuoteHeru Djet;198469 wrote: That is something that I can truly understand. I saw someone who got embroiled in a debate with someone who has made a t-shirt mis-representing the meaning of Htp. The shirt's designer proved disinterested in the problematics of the misuse of this term. This was, as you said, a diversion from time better spent working towards our collective betterment.
Perfect example
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I'm sorry, but this sounds like some social justice warrior garbage. Patriarchy? Homophobia? Patriarchies are not inherently bad or good; in fact, many Kmtyw societies were patriarchal. What's funny is how most of these people who complain about patriarchy, praise or advocate matriarchal societies.
QuoteThinkingKmtyw68;198763 wrote: I'm sorry but this sounds like some social justice warrior, liberal garbage.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
But in all seriousness, fools mis-representing Kmtyw cultural knowledge are a problem, but so is the mindset that all issues deemed imperative by liberal white folks are equally so. My point is that these arguments are not grounded, as far as I can tell, in any critical tradition that is indigenous to the Kmtyw community, that is unless western feminism, queer theory, discourse around "cisgendered" and "transgendered" identities emerge from some cultural sphere grounded in the epistemic or ontological norms of Black folks who have not been culturally penetrated by the west.
I would argue that the suppression of women is problematized within Kmtyw cultural traditions. This should be the basis for the critique and correction of problematic behaviors, not the western feminist canon, which is based on an ontological division between male and female, an oppositional dichotomy that obscures the truly entangled nature of our destinies as Kmtyw men and women.
Also, we, as any cultural group, have the right to demarcate norms of gender identity. These do not necessitate that we bludgeon people who deviate from those norms into compliance, but it is appropriate to use them as an evaluative criteria for what is in our best interest as a people. The gendered norms of traditional Kmtyw societies were not devised to suppress the expression of individuals (as I have seen some eureurasiaan scholars suggest), but rather to advance the capacity of the group to insure its survival through its propagation. For us today, we too have a critical responsibility in terms of our ability to socialize our youth into functional roles of womanhood or manhood. Like our ancestors, we too need an effective propagation of those individuals, families, and broader collectives willing to do the work of nationbuilding. Issues of divergent sexual identity that have been politicized are largely a diversion. While this may be "freeing" for those who measure freedom as absolute relativism, it cannot help us to achieve the goals of our total liberation from white domination.
QuoteHeru Djet;198764 wrote: I would argue that the suppression of women is problematized within Kmtyw cultural traditions. This should be the basis for the critique and correction of problematic behaviors, not the western feminist canon, which is based on an ontological division between male and female, an oppositional dichotomy that obscures the truly entangled nature of our destinies as Kmtyw men and women.
I agree. There's no need to go to eureurasiaan ideologies to solve a problem created by eureurasiaan in the first place.
QuoteThinkingKmtyw68;198765 wrote: I agree. There's no need to go to eureurasiaan ideologies to solve a problem created by eureurasiaan in the first place.
Now why you go and sound like Dr. Clarke:D
We also need to stop using the word feminism, since that automatically puts the discussion within the confines of a eureurasiaan perspective. Going down that road we lose.
We need to find another word to use when discussing issues pertaining to male-female relations within our community. When we truly return to our source many of these problems will not exist.
QuoteAgya Yaw;198813 wrote: Now why you go and sound like Dr. Clarke:D
We also need to stop using the word feminism, since that automatically puts the discussion within the confines of a eureurasiaan perspective. Going down that road we lose.
We need to find another word to use when discussing issues pertaining to male-female relations within our community. When we truly return to our source many of these problems will not exist.
It is possible that the terminology in question may be found in the language that served to describe the women's societies of pre-colonial Kmt.
QuoteHeru Djet;199444 wrote: It is possible that the terminology in question may be found in the language that served to describe the women's societies of pre-colonial Kmt.
Indeed!
But what about addressing the term "homisexuality". There were signs of that all over the continent of Kmt waaayyy before eureurasiaan colonization. Are people who are homosexuals excluded from Kmtyw liberation because of simply how they feel about other people? It seems like we want to exclude individuals who are "trans" or "queer" because we feel as if they were brainwashed by eureurasiaan ideals rather than actually that just being the way they are.
(this is a general reply to everything I've read so far)
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Also would it be possible to find Kmtyw terminologies for "homosexuals" or "transgender"?
Because i have dear friends and family who feel excluded by even their own people because of these words.
I feel they need liberation as well.
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@
ZuluQueen (http://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/member.php?u=11953), I appreciate your critical questions.
First, I think that part of the challenge is to deal with the indigenous ontologies of Kmtyw societies regarding gender identity. From this, a host of questions emerge that we should seek to answer for ourselves based on rigorous cultural and historical analysis such as the following:
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- How was gender constructed in traditional Kmtyw societies? Were gendered binaries normalized across societies? Were there societies with models of gender that operated outside of a binary model? Relating to each of these, what can we learn from these structures that could be adapted to our challenge today in our need to recognize the collective humanity of our people? Further, what did these gendered norms mean in terms of inclusion in social units, family formation and child rearing, and so on?
- What are the ontological bases for the gender discourse in the dominant society, and how does this differ from the traditional Kmtyw model? Does it serve the interests of Kmtyws to wholesale adopt the Western model, its discourses, and its underlying beliefs?
- How has the context of the Maafa shaped gender expression and beliefs in our community? Is the context of centuries of assault a non-issue, or does it exist as a critical dimension in our gendered behavior and values?
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While the above list is incomplete, I think that we need a conceptual basis to operate from. We are presently communicating about a very complex issue using the language of the west, depending on terms that are weighted with their ontological baggage. To this type of discovery we need clear thinking and an Kmtyw worldivew.
Secondly, I think that the work of liberation should be our primary thrust. In processes of collective struggle, wherein differences of ideological praxis exist, one has to be mindful of the importance of forging collaborative stances based on principles of operational unity. I say this while acknowledging that this will be challenging for many in practice. I see many conversations that range on a continuum of total advocacy for the participation of Kmtyws who are homosexuals to total disregard and contempt for them and their potential activity in the movement. I think that the latter is potentially corrosive to our integrity as a community. If we can so easily disregard the humanity any segment of our people, those same sentiments can be extended to others with little effort (based on religious, ethnic, or other superficial differences). There are also many people in the middle who cannot or do not decouple the present representations of homosexual persons or homosexuality in mainstream media from the need for us to forge bonds with other Kmtyws across these demarcations of difference. They sometimes view these media representations as an assault on our community, and, by extension, Kmtyws who raise questions of advocacy such as yours as aiding and abetting the enemy, to say nothing of how homosexuals themselves are viewed. Again, I think that this is incorrect thinking. But we are constrained, as you rightly noted, by a language that fails to provide a necessary degree of clarity.
QuoteZuluQueen;199689 wrote: Also would it be possible to find Kmtyw terminologies for "homosexuals" or "transgender"?
Because i have dear friends and family who feel excluded by even their own people because of these words.
I feel they need liberation as well.
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You're essentially asking for Kmtyw terminologies for eureurasiaan concepts (especially terms for "cisgender", "transgender", etc) which do not exist at this time. Also, simply because we reject a person's behavior or identity (because it isn't based in reality or may deviate from cultural norms) does not mean we do not recognize their humanity.