"The Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah (1213–1203 BCE) provides the earliest nonbiblical reference to ancient Israel, in a short poem appended to a much longer prose account of his self-proclaimed victory over the Libyans and their allies, the Sea Peoples. The victory stela (now usually known as the “Israel Stela”) was erected in 1209 in Merneptah’s funerary temple at Thebes. The relevant part of the victory ode reads:
The princes are prostrate, saying “Shalom” [Peace]!
Not one is raising his head among the Nine Bows.
Now that Libya [Tehenu] has come to ruin,
Hatti is pacified.
The Canaan has been plundered into every sort of woe;
Ashkelon has been overcome;
Gezer has been captured;
Yanoam is made nonexistent;
Israel is laid waste and his seed is not;
Hurru is become a widow because of Egypt.
The leading adversaries of the Egyptians—three city-states, or kingdoms, designated by their capitals (Ashkelon, Gezer, and Yanoam), and a people known as Israel—lie within the larger geographical framework of Canaan and Hurru. The latter, bereft of her spouse, has become a “widow” because of Egypt. Ironically, Merneptah’s premature proclamation of the demise of Israel is the first reference in history to this polity, which survived for another six hundred years as a “nation,” first as a confederation of tribes and later as a monarchy (1025–586 BCE).
Within the larger territorial framework of Canaan, the Egyptians use the determinative for a fortified city-state to designate the smaller kingdoms of Ashkelon, Gezer, and Yanoam; Israel is correctly distinguished as a rural or tribal entity by the determinative for “people.” In Egyptian the names of foreign countries, provinces, and cities are treated syntactically as feminine. But Israel, with the “people” determinative, is a masculine collective, probably indicating its identity with an eponymous patriarchal ancestor. Clearly the Egyptians regarded Israel as a different kind of polity from the other three, although all were apparently equal adversaries, if not part of an organized anti-Egyptian Canaanite coalition. The campaign against Canaan proceeds from the southwest to the northeast, Ashkelon to Gezer, and then farther north to Yanoam, somewhere near the Sea of Galilee.
Where was this early Israel located, and what was its settlement pattern and social structure? The people determinative can be used of tribally organized pastoralist or agriculturalist groups, with or without territorial boundaries. The Egyptian designation could apply equally well to an unsettled or to a settled group or confederation organized along tribal lines. This early entity must have had sufficient military strength to stand on par with the three other city-states, or kingdoms.
When the rebellion of Canaanites and Israelites against Egypt is placed in broader perspective, it appears that this was just one of many trouble spots that threatened Egyptian control and order in the late thirteenth and early twelfth centuries BCE. The first wave of Sea Peoples (which did not include the Philistines), allied with the Libyans, lapped right up to the shores of Egypt itself during Merneptah’s reign. Three decades later a second wave of Sea Peoples (including the Philistines) threatened the Nile Delta and carved out coastal kingdoms in Canaan at the expense of the Egyptian empire under Rameses III.
In this larger context of disorder in the eastern Mediterranean it is abundantly clear from the Merneptah Stela that Israel was a political-ethnic entity of sufficient importance to the Egyptians to warrant mention alongside the three Canaanite city-states. Indeed, this event of about 1200 BCE was the nearest thing to a real revolution in Canaan—and it was against the Egyptians."
Redmount, Carol A (2001) [1998]. "Bitter lives: Israel in and out of Egypt". In Coogan, Michael D. The Oxford History of the Biblical World. Oxford University Press. pp. 58–89. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=The+Oxford+History+of+the+Biblical+World.&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=The+Oxford+History+of+the+Biblical+World.&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def)
This topic....trying to discuss with a friend who recently embraced Hebrew Israelite teaching.
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
Quotekevlew;216824 wrote: This topic....trying to discuss with a friend who recently embraced Hebrew Israelite teaching.
“Never be shamed of being Kmtyw” - Nana Thomas Sankara
The very first time Israel was mentioned in history was here towards the end/destruction of Kmt (Black) civilization.
Looking at the exodus story. My thing is if Kmtyws in Kemet saw fit to carry huge stones, carved every major happening in stone surely they would have recorded the exodus and a river splitting....we can only go by primary evidence. Only thing I can relate is the expulsion of the Hyksos...
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
Finally I said believe what will bro. Not my battle...here is the reference material ... peace.
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
The river splitting comes from an old Kemetic storyabout the Golden Lotus. http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm (http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm)
QuoteDwomowale;216829 wrote: The river splitting comes from an old Kemetic storyabout the Golden Lotus. http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm (http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm)
Absolutely. bible=50% plagiarism/50% outright lies
The Golden Lotus
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm (http://www.egyptianmyths.net/mythglotus.htm)
Seneferu, father of the Pharaoh Khufu who built the Great Pyramid of Giza, reigned long over a contented and peaceful Egypt. He had no foreign wars and few troubles at home, and with so little business of state he often found time hanging heavy on his hands.
One day he wandered wearily through his palace at Memphis, seeking for pleasures and finding none that would lighten his heart.
Then he bethought him of his Chief Magician, Zazamankh, and he said, 'If any man is able to entertain me and show me new marvels, surely it is the wise scribe of the rolls. Bring Zazamankh before me.'
Pharaoh: "...devise something that will fill my heart with pleasure"
Straightway his servants went to the House of Wisdom and brought Zazamankh to the presence of Pharaoh. And Seneferu said to him, 'I have sought throughout all my palace for some delight, and found none. Now of your wisdom devise something that will fill my heart with pleasure.' Then said Zazamankh to him, 'O Pharaoh life, health, strength be to you! - my counsel is that you go sailing upon the Nile, and upon the lake below Memphis. This will be no common voyage, if you will follow my advice in all things.'
'Believing that you will show me marvels, I will order out the Royal Boat,' said Seneferu. 'Yet I am weary of sailing upon the Nile and upon the lake.'
'This will be no common voyage,' Zazamankh assured him. 'For your rowers will be different from any you have seen at the oars before. They must be fair maidens from the Royal House of the King's Women: and as you watch them rowing, and see the birds upon the lake, the sweet fields and the green grass upon the banks, your heart will grow glad.'
'Indeed, this will be something new,' agreed Pharaoh, showing some interest at last. 'Therefore I give you charge of this expedition. Speak with my power, and command all that is necessary.'
Then said Zazamankh to the officers and attendants of Pharaoh Seneferu, 'Bring me twenty oars of ebony inlaid with gold, with blades of light wood inlaid with electrum. And choose for rowers the twenty fairest maidens in Pharaoh's household: twenty virgins slim and lovely, fair in their limbs, beautiful, and with flowing hair. And bring me twenty nets of golden thread, and give these nets to the fair maidens to be garments for them. And let them wear ornaments of gold and electrum and malachite.'
All was done according to the words of Zazamankh, and presently Pharaoh was seated in the Royal Boat while the maidens rowed him up and down the stream and upon the shining waters of the lake. And the heart of Seneferu was glad at the sight of the beautiful rowers at their unaccustomed task, and he seemed to be on a voyage in the golden days that were to be when Osiris returns to rule the earth.
But presently a mischance befell that gay and happy party upon the lake. In the raised stern of the Royal Boat two of the maidens were steering with great oars fastened to posts. Suddenly the handle of one of the oars brushed against the head of the girl who was using it and swept the golden lotus she wore on the fillet that held back her hair into the water, where it sank out of sight.
With a little cry she leant over and gazed after it. And as she ceased from her song, so did all the rowers on that side who were taking their time from her.
'Why have you ceased to row?' asked Pharaoh.
And they replied, 'Our little steerer has stopped, and leads us no longer.'
'And why have you ceased to steer and lead the rowers with your song?' asked Seneferu.
'Forgive me, Pharaoh - life, health, strength be to you!' she sobbed. 'But the oar struck my hair and brushed from it the beautiful golden lotus set with malachite which your majesty gave to me, and it has fallen into the water and is lost forever.'
'Row on as before, and I will give you another,' said Seneferu.
But the girl continued to weep, saying, 'I want my golden lotus back, and no other!'
Then said Pharaoh, 'There is only one who can find the golden lotus that has sunk to the bottom of the lake. Bring to me Zazamankh my magician, he who thought of this voyage. Bring him here on to the Royal Boat before me.'
So Zazamankh was brought to where Seneferu sat in his silken pavilion on the Royal Boat. And as he knelt, Pharaoh said to him: 'Zazamankh, my friend and brother, I have done as you advised. My royal heart is refreshed and my eyes are delighted at the sight of these lovely rowers bending to their task. As we pass up and down on the waters of the lake, and they sing to me, while on the shore I see the trees and the flowers and the birds, I seem to be sailing into the golden days either those of old when Re ruled on earth, or those to come when the good god Osiris shall return from the Duat. But now a golden lotus has fallen from the hair of one of these maidens fallen to the bottom of the lake. And she has ceased to sing and the rowers on her side cannot keep time with their oars. And she is not to be comforted with promises of other gifts, but weeps for her golden lotus. Zazamankh, I wish to give back the golden lotus to the little one here, and see the joy return to her eyes.'
'Pharaoh, my lord - life, health, strength be to you!' answered Zazamankh the magician, 'I will do what you ask - for to one with my knowledge it is not a great thing. Yet maybe it is an enchantment you have never seen, and it will fill you with wonder, even as I promised, and make your heart rejoice yet further in new things.'
"...the lake parted as if a piece had been cut out of it with a great sword."
Then Zazamankh stood at the stern of the Royal Boat and began to chant great spells and words of power. And presently he held out his wand over the water, and the lake parted as if a piece had been cut out of it with a great sword. The lake here was twenty feet deep, and the piece of water that the magician moved rose up and set itself upon the surface of the lake so that there was a cliff of water on that side forty feet high.
Now the Royal Boat slid gently down into the great cleft in the lake until it rested on the bottom. On the side towards the forty-foot cliff of water there was a great open space where the bottom of the lake lay uncovered, as firm and dry as the land itself.
And there, just below the stern of the Royal Boat, lay the golden lotus.
With a cry of joy the maiden who had lost it sprang over the side on to the firm ground, picked it up and set it once more in her hair. Then she climbed swiftly back into the Royal Boat and took the steering oar into her hands once more.
Zazamankh slowly lowered his rod, and the Royal Boat slid up the side of the water until it was level with the surface once more. Then at another word of power, and as if drawn by the magician's rod, the great piece of water slid back into place, and the evening breeze rippled the still surface of the lake as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened. But the heart of Pharaoh Seneferu rejoiced and was filled with wonder, and he cried: 'Zazamankh, my brother, you are the greatest and wisest of magicians! You have shown me wonders and delights this day, and your reward shall be all that you desire, and a place next to my own in Egypt.' Then the Royal Boat sailed gently on over the lake in the glow of the evening, while the twenty lovely maidens in their garments of golden net, and the jeweled lotus flowers in their hair dipped their ebony and silver oars in the shimmering waters and sang sweetly a love song of old Egypt:
'She stands upon the further side,
Between us flows the Nile;
And in those waters deep and wide
There lurks a crocodile.
'Yet is my love so true and sweet,
A word of power, a charm -
The stream is land beneath my feet
And bears me without harm.
'For I shall come to where she stands,
No more be held apart;
And I shall take my darling's hands
And draw her to my heart.'
QuoteObadele Kambon;216825 wrote: The very first time Israel was mentioned in history was here towards the end/destruction of Kmt (Black) civilization.
To me looked like it said jezreel and not israel. Do you know when and where might a second mentioning of israel be?
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QuoteAsafoKwame;216895 wrote: To me looked like it said jezreel and not israel. Do you know when and where might a second mentioning of israel be?
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@
AsafoKwame (https://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/member.php?u=2800), if that's what it looked like to you, you may want to brush up on your Mdw Ntr right fast.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]9672[/ATTACH]
Using gardiner's transcription method, it would read
ysrỉȝr
Using allen's transcription method, it would read
yzrjȝr
Note that to represent /i/ with /j/ follows the IPA, which in turn follows the practice in nordic languages where what is referred to as the long /e/ sound in english is represented by /j/.
"The Merneptah Stele (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele)—also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah—is an inscription by the Ancient Egyptian king Merneptah (reign: 1213 to 1203 BC) discovered by Flinders Petrie in 1896 at Thebes, and now housed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.[...] It represents the first documented instance of the name Israel in contemporary archaeological record,
and the only known mention in Ancient Egypt. It is also one of four known contemporary inscriptions containing the name of Israel, the others being the Mesha Stele (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele), the Tel Dan Stele (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele), and the Kurkh Monolith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurkh_Monolith)"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
I actually got a picture of this stele when I was there.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ikdKjMgNwNQ0-o2rf70ZtM0ITKj00RsHEesO9OhRt09Rs4liRBk3T9xQtj5pUMRhTMCAyw_VSUAOdbzFQ7omb4rNKV39uxEk8h621VH9gsdljwNaNx7PWZj2ueO-skAfrH7nuhwGAcxxQAnzDE1cPrexKYsMm_7abyZzsoHxzynUuFDsT1ptr9sa-8ovCm82OSDHsw32qz-EvhPy0e0YmYBgsEmDdys-BwauLZjNrdo19O2nUzC5ZwCwYwjxto74BhJMeV2jk4RKHLKhGiTTzkGDf-LnFkd7OutTbhzNTaN3-8H5XAM3PLiqfRNE1qYazlIN2DOdF9wdJ29IfZsApIG_9qsYqhzkLPpclePgabIvtM18RHKzAjuSUY1gInSmzLYCpmgk5OW0q3ZPWo78T0b0XnWHRG0vU2FJPGOPG4zGiXpNpeYWWggSRG5cGF4rgqrDJP1lCfcN870cHspDWyWU9701tc57THg-Z4uzg9cQtxL-Xlk1PL_2JGLg-epn02LkBFRvzugYlq81-LuDgDUaHRq85ckGONtGzimhULE4UsuY0So7csTk602IvrrGACefuXqM__q-xwYwcB7aIVEtrnnXmB4G0Y4tPS3VEXxREvmbQ29N8Q=w331-h589-no)
photo credit Dr. Ọbádélé Kambon
There has been a case made for a fragmentary pedestal stolen and taken to berlin as an earlier mention of Israel but this is more disputed as the transcription is less direct than in the stele above although the enemy context is right.
(https://www.abibitumikasa.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biblearchaeology.org%2Fimage.axd%3Fpicture%3DEgyptian%2BBase%2BFragment.jpg&hash=c55565efc26ce8b369f464f002a0c365c798c396)
On the far right, the only glyphs visible show
ỉ[ȝ]šȝỉr using gardiner's transcription. This would be
j[ȝ]šȝjr using allen's method, but note that the sound value would be the same between either of these two renderings.
Attached files (https://www.abibitumi.com/wp-content/uploads/ppMigration/216925=9672-israel-in-merneptah-stele.jpg) (https://www.abibitumi.com/wp-content/uploads/ppMigration/216925=9672-israel-in-merneptah-stele.jpg)
QuoteObadele Kambon;216925 wrote: @AsafoKwame (https://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/member.php?u=2800), if that's what it looked like to you, you may want to brush up on your Mdw Ntr right fast.
Well, I am studying right now. Can you share with me where I can get the materials y'all used in the Mdw Ntr Adesuakuo preferably from a Black source of course?
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@AsafoKwame, BlackNificent! Studying is much better than making up stuff as you go along as a method in general. The materials are here: https://www.dropbox.com/home/adwuma/ias/Course%20Descriptions/Mdw%20Ntr%20Adesua (https://www.dropbox.com/home/adwuma/ias/Course%20Descriptions/Mdw%20Ntr%20Adesua)
The ones from Dr. Beatty, my own teacher, can also be found here: http://www.ankhonline.com/revue.htm (http://www.ankhonline.com/revue.htm)
The vast majority of authors there are Black, of course.
I'd also recommend Kmtyw Philosophy: The Pharaonic Period, but as that is an Kmtyw book, we're not making the soft copy available, but it can be purchased online through Per Ankh
:pyramid:
QuoteObadele Kambon;217071 wrote: @AsafoKwame, BlackNificent! Studying is much better than making up stuff as you go along as a method in general. The materials are here: https://www.dropbox.com/home/adwuma/ias/Course%20Descriptions/Mdw%20Ntr%20Adesua (https://www.dropbox.com/home/adwuma/ias/Course%20Descriptions/Mdw%20Ntr%20Adesua)
The ones from Dr. Beatty, my own teacher, can also be found here: http://www.ankhonline.com/revue.htm (http://www.ankhonline.com/revue.htm)
The vast majority of authors there are Black, of course.
I'd also recommend Kmtyw Philosophy: The Pharaonic Period, but as that is an Kmtyw book, we're not making the soft copy available, but it can be purchased online through Per Ankh
:pyramid:
Thanks, I can see the second link but the first link to the dropbox errors out and states the folder does not exist. Is this supposed to be a share link or do you have to open permissions for me to view?
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QuoteAsafoKwame;217073 wrote: Thanks, I can see the second link but the first link to the dropbox errors out and states the folder does not exist. Is this supposed to be a share link or do you have to open permissions for me to view?
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What sort of information are you looking for?
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
QuoteAsafoKwame;217073 wrote: Thanks, I can see the second link but the first link to the dropbox errors out and states the folder does not exist. Is this supposed to be a share link or do you have to open permissions for me to view?
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Yes, it's supposed to be a shared link to the folder. I'll see what I can do on that for you to access the link.
Quotekevlew;217078 wrote: What sort of information are you looking for?
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
The recommended materials used by the wstnw Kmt Mdw Ntr study group. I understand the course is in development and may not be ready. I've made contributions to this effort and plan to continue to do so. I also recognize that you've invited me to share what I find.
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Try this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0)
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QuoteObadele Kambon;217103 wrote: Try this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0)
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That works...
"Never be shamed of being Kmtyw" - Nana Thomas Sankara
QuoteObadele Kambon;217103 wrote: Try this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z4m4nzrbjqqio2i/AACNvbsmCamsT3mhUI_6Bf-ta?dl=0)
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Medase
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QuoteAsafoKwame;217135 wrote: Medase
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Yɛnni aseda!
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QuoteObadele Kambon;216925 wrote: @AsafoKwame (https://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/member.php?u=2800), if that's what it looked like to you, you may want to brush up on your Mdw Ntr right fast.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]9672[/ATTACH]
Using gardiner's transcription method, it would read ysrỉȝr
Using allen's transcription method, it would read yzrjȝr
Note that to represent /i/ with /j/ follows the IPA, which in turn follows the practice in nordic languages where what is referred to as the long /e/ sound in english is represented by /j/.
This begs the question then of what are the possible ways the scribe could have represented the sound and meaning of jezreel in Mdw Ntr.
Both sound similar, but it is apparent from the wikipedia entries that the meaning of jezreel fits best contextually in referring to the seed that is sown. Moreover, it also fits best within the context of the fact that there is no corroborating evidence for any existence of israel until much later chronologically, centuries later that is, when biblical nonsense appears.
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QuoteAsafoKwame;221866 wrote: This begs the question then of what are the possible ways the scribe could have represented the sound and meaning of jezreel in Mdw Ntr.
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You've got it backwards. The question is how the stele's (https://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9672&d=1484295238&thumb=1), the first occurrence in history of such "people", is to be transliterated. You have already been provided with the answer to that. If you're stuck on Jezreel, go through the uniliterals and let me know when you find a cobra. That will give you the English /d͡ʒ/ sound you're looking for.
QuoteAsafoKwame;221866 wrote: Both sound similar
No, they don't.
QuoteAsafoKwame;221866 wrote: but it is apparent from the wikipedia entries
The blind leading the blind.
QuoteAsafoKwame;221866 wrote: that the meaning of jezreel fits best contextually in referring to the seed that is sown. Moreover, it also fits best within the context of the fact that there is no corroborating evidence for any existence of israel until much later chronologically, centuries later that is, when biblical nonsense appears.
This is quite ahistorical and self-contradictory. The Merneptah stele is from 1213 to 1203 BCE. "Corroborating evidence" in terms of archaeological excavations, dating of pottery, etc., date Jezreel from the early 9th century BCE. What you're trying to do is take Jezreel and work backwards to force it into the Mdw Ntr (obviously without being able to read Mdw Ntr, by the way) rather than take the Mdw Ntr, which antedates Jezreel or anything else as the valid source and then work your way forward.
QuoteObadele Kambon;222012 wrote: You've got it backwards. The question is how the stele's (https://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9672&d=1484295238&thumb=1), the first occurrence in history of such "people", is to be transliterated. You have already been provided with the answer to that. If you're stuck on Jezreel, go through the uniliterals and let me know when you find a cobra. That will give you the English /d͡ʒ/ sound you're looking for.
No, I don't have it backwards. No, I'm not looking for any english sound. Although transliteration can be revealing, I'm not stuck on transliteration, because I'm focused on what is more substantive, which is the translation.
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QuoteAsafoKwame;222048 wrote: No, I don't have it backwards. No, I'm not looking for any english sound. Although transliteration can be revealing, I'm not stuck on transliteration, because I'm focused on what is more substantive, which is the translation.
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Okay, thanks.
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QuoteObadele Kambon;222012 wrote:
This is quite ahistorical and self-contradictory. The Merneptah stele is from 1213 to 1203 BCE. "Corroborating evidence" in terms of archaeological excavations, dating of pottery, etc., date Jezreel from the early 9th century BCE. What you're trying to do is take Jezreel and work backwards to force it into the Mdw Ntr (obviously without being able to read Mdw Ntr, by the way) rather than take the Mdw Ntr, which antedates Jezreel or anything else as the valid source and then work your way forward.
Do you have a source for the archaelogical dating of jezreel to the early 9th century?
The Merneptah stele itself is one piece of evidence for jezreel since the meaning of jezreel is illustrated directly beside. So there is no need to work backwards as you state.
Hence I am able to take Mdw Ntr and work forward knowing biblical nonsense, especially lies including israel, is often wrongly promoted in chronologically backwards fashion.
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QuoteAsafoKwame;222195 wrote: Do you have a source for the archaelogical dating of jezreel to the early 9th century?
The Merneptah stele itself is one piece of evidence for jezreel since the meaning of jezreel is illustrated directly beside. So there is no need to work backwards as you state.
Hence I am able to take Mdw Ntr and work forward knowing biblical nonsense, especially lies including israel, is often wrongly promoted in chronologically backwards fashion.
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I believe the reference to jezreel being associated with the Mernepath stele was already addressed above and corrected using the correct methods. Saying that leaves the search for the source of it being tied to the 9th century BC.
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"The day will come when history will speak. But it will not be the history which will be taught in Brussels, Paris, Washington or the United Nations...Kmt will write its own history and in both north and south it will be a history of glory and dignity".
Nana Patrice Lumumba.
QuoteAsafoKwame;222195 wrote: Do you have a source for the archaelogical dating of jezreel to the early 9th century?
The Merneptah stele itself is one piece of evidence for jezreel since the meaning of jezreel is illustrated directly beside. So there is no need to work backwards as you state.
Hence I am able to take Mdw Ntr and work forward knowing biblical nonsense, especially lies including israel, is often wrongly promoted in chronologically backwards fashion.
Sent from my SM-N920P using Abibitumi Kasa mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=88213)
I by far am not the authority on this. Here is a link that may help your research.
http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?page_id=2051 (http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?page_id=2051)
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"The day will come when history will speak. But it will not be the history which will be taught in Brussels, Paris, Washington or the United Nations...Kmt will write its own history and in both north and south it will be a history of glory and dignity".
Nana Patrice Lumumba.
Quotekevlew;222196 wrote: I believe the reference to jezreel being associated with the Mernepath stele was already addressed above and corrected using the correct methods. Saying that leaves the search for the source of it being tied to the 9th century BC.
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"The day will come when history will speak. But it will not be the history which will be taught in Brussels, Paris, Washington or the United Nations...Kmt will write its own history and in both north and south it will be a history of glory and dignity".
Nana Patrice Lumumba.
Yes, the Merneptah stele references people not having seed. Thus, the meaning of Jezreel or Yezreel associates with this very well. As for archaelogical dating, looks like the link you provide states that small villages existed there during the time period of the Merneptah stele in the so called Bronze Age. This also fits well with the use of a determinative for people.
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QuoteAsafoKwame;222395 wrote: Yes, the Merneptah stele references people not having seed. Thus, the meaning of Jezreel or Yezreel associates with this very well. As for archaelogical dating, looks like the link you provide states that small villages existed there during the time period of the Merneptah stele in the so called Bronze Age. This also fits well with the use of a determinative for people.
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Ok thanks.
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"The day will come when history will speak. But it will not be the history which will be taught in Brussels, Paris, Washington or the United Nations...Kmt will write its own history and in both north and south it will be a history of glory and dignity".
Nana Patrice Lumumba.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/b1fa2358323968ab33d76156e32715d7.jpg)
Anyone read or heard of this book?
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Power is the ability to define reality and to have other people respond to your definition as if it were their own. - Dr. Wade Nobles
What I usually ask is, show us just ONE burial site of ANYBODY prominent in the Bible. And I promise you "IN THE NAME OF Jesus" that you can't do it. (Pun intended).
Yet Ancient Kemetic Mummies thounited snakesnds of years older are being found.
KNOWing is better than beLIEving.
Ok. This is not hard evidence and 70 B.C. doesn't come anywhere close to the time of the Nesut Bity (pharaoh) mentioned above. Even the said legends that say there were Jews in Maroc by 586 B.C. isn't as far back. I just think this information is angle by which to become part of a conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CWcNmoyZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CWcNmoyZ4)
QuoteLion-O;235870 wrote: Ok. This is not hard evidence and 70 B.C. doesn't come anywhere close to the time of the Nesut Bity (pharaoh) mentioned above. Even the said legends that say there were Jews in Maroc by 586 B.C. isn't as far back. I just think this information is angle by which to become part of a conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CWcNmoyZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CWcNmoyZ4)
What is this? Evidence of what?
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Power is the ability to define reality and to have other people respond to your definition as if it were their own. - Dr. Wade Nobles
It's more of a reply to What is Israel in Relation to Kmt or Kmtyw people. What someone says, not necessarily what I believe. I think we are all seeking truth. There are those who claim the Exodus in the Bible was a prophecy referring to a return of our people from the west (Egypt) and that Black people in the diaspora through slavery make up two lost tribes of Israel; Ephraim and Judah..
QuoteLion-O;235873 wrote: It's more of a reply to What is Israel in Relation to Kmt or Kmtyw people. What someone says, not necessarily what I believe. I think we are all seeking truth. There are those who claim the Exodus in the Bible was a prophecy referring to a return of our people from the west (Egypt) and that Black people in the diaspora through slavery make up two lost tribes of Israel; Ephraim and Judah..
Ok got you. This discussion has been had here for a while. I have had it offline as well. The thing is we have to start to move more toward primary sources that our ancestors left for us to read and study then we rely on religious literature which is 50% lies and 50% myths that seem for some to be taken as literal authoritative documents over historical records. Our ancestors left us the evidence carved in stone to read, there are real life accounts of real life people and events that can be studied as primary evidence. Then to extend the research there are linguistics and other disciplines that can be used to further unravel the history. This is the primary approach that Chiek Anta Diop and Theophile Obenga used at the 1974 UNESCO conference and similar to today because the other so called scholars were no prepared using primary resources and a multi-discipline approach the conference was halted. I find basically on a smaller scale the same issue when entering into a discussion on this topic or any religious topic for that matter. Once we move away from religious literature and focus on primary evidence this is where we get the lack of serious scholarship approach. When this happens I am learning to just leave it where it is.
This is my experience.
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Power is the ability to define reality and to have other people respond to your definition as if it were their own. - Dr. Wade Nobles
I don't speak with anyone who's religious about their stories/myth/folktales, I find it futile. If they say I'm going to hell then I say, "I'm gonna burn baby burn."
QuoteAgya Yaw;235876 wrote: I don't speak with anyone who's religious about their stories/myth/folktales, I find it futile. If they say I'm going to hell then I say, "I'm gonna burn baby burn."
Basically
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Power is the ability to define reality and to have other people respond to your definition as if it were their own. - Dr. Wade Nobles
QuoteAgya Yaw;235876 wrote: I don't speak with anyone who's religious about their stories/myth/folktales, I find it futile. If they say I'm going to hell then I say, "I'm gonna burn baby burn."
The best answer I have for those who say non religious people are going to "Hell" is: I do not accept the idea of going to "hell" from those who have never been there before.
And that shuts them up!!
KNOWing is better than beLIEving.