Were/Are the Abosom/Orisa/Vodun/Nkisi and other Kmtyw Spiritual Forces not powerful enough to stop genocide/enslavement against Kmtyw people and only able to resist to a certain extent
or
is genocide/enslavement part of some larger divine purpose that fits into a greater plan beyond our comprehension that these Spiritual Forces have knowledge of?
Feel free to share your thoughts or messages that you have gotten directly from Abosom/Vodun/Orisa kwk in reference to this query.
Were/Are the Abosom/Orisa/Vodun/Nkisi and other Kmtyw Spiritual Forces not powerful enough to stop genocide/enslavement against Kmtyw people and only able to resist to a certain extent
Man oh man what a can of worms. You know Obadele I've found myself in many conversations about this and I try my best to understand the full set of circumstances around this event. There are some of our people who are attracted to the culture who cannot accept the Abosom, Orisa, Arusi, Nkisi, Vodu etc., as anything but just energy. They can't accept the personalities or anything indicating a consciousness with these forces because the dilemma for them is then how could they have let this calamity happen to us.
When it comes to explaining why when we called on them were we not able to stop this I really don't know what to say.
How I explain it is that I try to keep it in context. When krakkaz came to the shores of West Kmt in the 15th century they saw some groups of us living in villages, some of us still in a state of disorder and some of us in the process of building up empires. I try to explain that what they saw going on when they came was not how things always were. What was going on for us at that time was directly related to the collapse of several great (in size and achievement) nations in West Kmt i.e. Wagadugu, Mali, Songhai, Gao, Kanem etc., The peoples of those empires had been migrating - some for decades and some for centuries after that. Also, the collapse of these empires most notably Wagadugu was due to foreign interference in the form of Kmtyws practicing foreign culture and aAmws assisting them. Furthermore, the whole reason we were in West Kmt was because we fled persecution in North East Kmt from foreign invaders. Therefore, what was going on in West Kmt at the time of the coming of krakkaz in the 15th century "a.d." was directly related to actions carried out by krakkaz in the North East of Kmt from as far back as the 15th century "b.c."
Here's my thing. We have the writings to show even from back in that time that we had always been told by our ancestors and ancestresses about these people. We had always been told about how we are to relate to them. The mistake as far as I can see was standing by and watching them attack and wipe out our brothers and sisters in other parts of this world. Some say that it's because of that good and compassionate nature in us that we won't actively go out and seek to do them harm. They say that the way we are is that as long as you're not doing anything bad against us then we figure live and let live. The problem I have with that is that it's not looking at the bigger picture. When I look at the history I don't see a pattern of us going out into the lands they occupied in eureurasia and eurasia and taking them out and that makes no sense to me.
It's like the cells in certain parts of the body seeing Cancer in one particular part of the body and they don't react as long as the cancer stays where it's at. That's insanity. Cancer can stay in one part of your body and kill the whole body from what it's doing or it can metastasize (invade other parts of the body). So because we didn't act sensibly, in my opinion, we're now in a situation where for instance, stuff that they're doing in Alaska or Iraq (all the oil their taking out of the earth) is having a negative effect in places in Kmt and Antarctica which will in turn affect the whole world really.
I hate how we fail to see the big picture. I wish I could impress upon the people of Sierra Leone to stop cutting down their trees and giving it to white folk in order to sustain themselves right now. I wish I could show them that this has already happened in Haiti where they cut down so many of their trees to give to white folk to pay off a debt they never owed that now much of their soil is no good to plant any food in order to sustain themselves. I could show them how mining the earth for bauxite has destroyed ecologies in Jamaica that therefore have animal species disappearing and plants and herbs that people would use for healing purposes are gone.
Anyway.......
My point is that we can't dig these large holes for ourselves and then expect the Abosom, Vodu, Arusi etc., to bail us out. We gotta do all we can do and all we're suppose to do first and we haven't been doing that. Some of it is due to our leaders. For instance in Wagadugu there came a time when they began to allow Kmtyws who were practicing foreign culture/ spirituality into high positions of the government. This should have never been. It is a betrayal of the citizenry by the government. It's even worse when you have the leader of the country converting to foreign culture/ spirituality. It's even worse considering the history of how this "religion" came to be - all the Kmtyw people that were wiped out and oppressed in its formation. So the government did its own citizens in. However, I also think that the culture among the citizenry should be one in where if they see things such as this happening they should immediately move to over throw such a government. From what I've read, this didn't happen. We saw a taste of it in Ancient Kemet with Akhenaton. Some say it was his mother who influenced him or someone who helped raised him. They say mother because we were taking foreign women as wives. Akhenaton attempted to do away with, what we can call, the Vodu, Abosom, Orisa et., He picked one and said to hell with all the rest - closed down temples and such. This was the same thing that the white man Soter, the Greek did when they invaded much later. He put the image of Serapis in his image for the people to worship. Tried to put his image in the temples alongside Aunited snakesr and the priests all rejected it so he then closed down all the temples.
It's like eating a whole bunch of junk food when you know better and then when you get sick you expect the Orisa to bail you out and afterwards you still go back to doing the same thing. It's not a matter of the Abosom failing to help you, to me. It's a matter of your behavior catching up to you eventually.
I could be wrong about all that.
or
is genocide/enslavement part of some larger divine purpose that fits into a greater plan beyond our comprehension that these Spiritual Forces have knowledge of?
Obadele, this is the only way that I can accept that the Abosom "help" white people. This is the only I can understand it. If it was a case, for instance, that we didn't have what it took way back when to actually wipe these people out and that things had to get to a certain level technologically for us to be able to or if certain things had to happen to give us the will to want to do what needs to be done or both then I understand. It's a hell of a price to pay yet I can still understand it.
Once again, I can see this in our bodies. There are cancer cells that have different functions just like regular cells and there are cancer cells who will actually trick our normal healthy cells by mimicking the behavior of normal healthy cells in order to avoid detection by our natural killer cells. There are also b-cells in our bodies. They are otherwise known as memory cells. They latch on to the diseased cell to learn about it and formulate strategies on how to kill it. They transfer this information to the natural killer cells to implement. Those B-cells are also responsible for whenever the particular disease in question comes back again. It stores the record of it so that the next time it will recognize it on the spot and know exactly how to respond to it right away.
Now imagine what state the body would be in if the b-cells were being told constantly to "get over the past". lol We would all be dead. Some of us are so innately hypocritical.
Then there's also what you said about the Abosom being smarter where the people are smarter. So it comes down to what people are thinking about and talking about and how. Were we calling upon the Abosom talkin' bout how we wish white people would love us? Were we calling upon the Abosom for the right things? It seems to me that they did in Haiti. Defeated the French, Spanish and British military. They seemed to have made up their mind on the issue of white folk in a singular moment of clarity.... just a moment.
Aside from that, If they really are just blind forces that will do whatever Kmtyw people ask of them then we are doomed.
Like I said in another post you really don't understand the gods...
QuoteGoddessofLight wrote: Like I said in another post you really don't understand the gods...
So instead of contributing to the topic you stepped in for the expressed purpose of telling me something that not only you've told me before, not only that everyone here already knows but that I've told you that everyone knows? How many more times can I expect for you to tell me what you, I and others here already know?
Was it that Obadele said to only comment if you know the answer for sure? Was it that he said only priests/ priestesses can answer? Was it that he said that only initiates can answer? What did I miss here? Or is it taunting? Hmm, Ahhh dat's it huh? You feel as though you have a relationship with them and as it relates to me it's na na naa na naaa naaa. lol Gee, now I'm hurt. After all, you know how much I value your insight.
The Orisa, Abosom, Nkisi, Vodun, Lwa, etc. work through us and at our behest. They do not work in a vaccum. Historically, where we made a decision to fight, they fought with us. In many of those instances we won. In many cases we chose not to fight. In many cases we unwittingly or wittingly participated in our demise. In other cases we were too fragmented to fight. Thus our deities were helpless to help us. When we make a collective decision to free ourselves and back it up with collective action, our spirits will be at our back, front, and sides. And we will win.
Quoteajaguna;23278 wrote: The Orisa, Abosom, Nkisi, Vodun, Lwa, etc. work through us and at our behest. They do not work in a vaccum. Historically, where we made a decision to fight, they fought with us. In many of those instances we won. In many cases we chose not to fight. In many cases we unwittingly or wittingly participated in our demise. In other cases we were too fragmented to fight. Thus our deities were helpless to help us. When we make a collective decision to free ourselves and back it up with collective action, our spirits will be at our back, front, and sides. And we will win.
What will it take for that collective decision to be made?
When we decide to use the Abosom/Orisha for Kmtyw liberation work they will be with us. If we decide to use the Abosom/Orisha to get along with eureurasiaans and others it will be our collective death.
QuoteYaw Asare Aboagye;51961 wrote: When we decide to use the Abosom/Orisha for Kmtyw liberation work they will be with us. If we decide to use the Abosom/Orisha to get along with eureurasiaans and others it will be our collective death.
Do you see one trend as being more prevalent than the other?
In my mind, Olodumare has allowed everything that exists to be. As above, so below. We ALL have character challenges and we exist to realign ourselves with our destiny. This takes many lifetimes and incarnations. This goes for people, races, and the orisa. (I can not speak for the abosom) They/we have a mission and a destiny to complete as well. I believe that the condition Kmtyw people find ourselves in is our collective character challenge. Are we going to be and do as we are-the adults of this planet or are we going to (as we have been) follow those not as mature or evolved as us. The òrìsà will assist us in this fight only to the degree that we appease and evoke them in that endeavor. Remember, the òrìsà are above our basic, elementary, emotional understandings. We are an assignment. They have work to do. The òrìsà will not come to you and ask you if your ebo is done or if you are following your èèwo. That is your/our responsibility. If we want their help we have to live the system. When we truly decide to fight, they will as well.....and they will be unstoppable.
QuoteEkundayo;51967 wrote: In my mind, Olodumare has allowed everything that exists to be. As above, so below. We ALL have character challenges and we exist to realign ourselves with our destiny. This takes many lifetimes and incarnations. This goes for people, races, and the orisa. (I can not speak for the abosom) They/we have a mission and a destiny to complete as well. I believe that the condition Kmtyw people find ourselves in is our collective character challenge. Are we going to be and do as we are-the adults of this planet or are we going to (as we have been) follow those not as mature or evolved as us. The òrìsà will assist us in this fight only to the degree that we appease and evoke them in that endeavor. Remember, the òrìsà are above our basic, elementary, emotional understandings. We are an assignment. They have work to do. The òrìsà will not come to you and ask you if your ebo is done or if you are following your èèwo. That is your/our responsibility. If we want their help we have to live the system. When we truly decide to fight, they will as well.....and they will be unstoppable.
This is very good input. Is there a critical mass, in your view, necessary for those who will truly decide to fight? For example I know a sister who is Ọmọ Yemọja who works for a major weapons manufacturer and contractor that supplies the u.s. government in its various international criminal wars of occupation/oppression/repression. Now, let's say she goes to Yemọja to ask for a raise. Let's say others who are the cogs, nuts and bolts that keep governments/organizations of oppression in power through day-to-day work also are propitiating Òrìṣà to reach their own personal goals which, in the final analysis, may actually work against Liberation to various degrees. The question, then, is how many Kmtyws who have decided to fight and invoke the Òrìṣà to which they are connected to fight will it take to counterbalance those who may be invoking the power of those same Òrìṣà and/or other spiritual forces for their own personal goals that may entail simply keeping the status quo and keeping things the way they are? I hope my question is clear. If not, I'll rephrase.
QuoteObadele Kambon;51965 wrote: Do you see one trend as being more prevalent than the other?
I have seen shrines that are equally about liberation work but the prevalence of it, I don't know for sure one way or the other.
Quoteajaguna;23278 wrote: The Orisa, Abosom, Nkisi, Vodun, Lwa, etc. work through us and at our behest. They do not work in a vaccum. Historically, where we made a decision to fight, they fought with us. In many of those instances we won. In many cases we chose not to fight. In many cases we unwittingly or wittingly participated in our demise. In other cases we were too fragmented to fight. Thus our deities were helpless to help us. When we make a collective decision to free ourselves and back it up with collective action, our spirits will be at our back, front, and sides. And we will win.
QuoteObadele Kambon wrote: What will it take for that collective decision to be made?
I think we'll make the collective decision once we realize our collective situation.
I think our people will realize our collective situation once they start seeing Kmtyw-centered folks forming groups/collectives of liberation-centered people building physical and non-physical liberation infrastructure alike (i.e. independent water resources procurement/treatment/management and building Kmtyw social systems).
Right now we are yelling at "the masses" to wake up and do thus and so, and they look at our lack of that which we are calling for and they dismiss us saying: "
Kwaterekwa se ɔbɛma wo ntoma a, tie ne din."
I think the first question is how do you get
Kmtyw-centered people to be and act like they want liberation?
QuoteYaw Asare Aboagye;51969 wrote: I have seen shrines that are equally about liberation work but the prevalence of it, I don't know for sure one way or the other.
I think if they were more prevalent our situation would be different.
QuoteAkhu;52081 wrote: I think we'll make the collective decision once we realize our collective situation.
I think our people will realize our collective situation once they start seeing Kmtyw-centered folks forming groups/collectives of liberation-centered people building physical and non-physical liberation infrastructure alike (i.e. independent water resources procurement/treatment/management and building Kmtyw social systems).
Right now we are yelling at "the masses" to wake up and do thus and so, and they look at our lack of that which we are calling for and they dismiss us saying: "Kwaterekwa se ɔbɛma wo ntoma a, tie ne din."
I think the first question is how do you get Kmtyw-centered people to be and act like they want liberation?
Can the answer to your question include force?
QuoteObadele Kambon;52094 wrote: Can the answer to your question include force?
I wish it could, but I am not sure how that would work. Seems like if one was forced into liberation (that even sounds funny) then s/he would rebel against that and seek to return to their previous position of comfort/enslavement. How do you see it?
QuoteAkhu;52373 wrote: I wish it could, but I am not sure how that would work. Seems like if one was forced into liberation (that even sounds funny) then s/he would rebel against that and seek to return to their previous position of comfort/enslavement. How do you see it?
In that case, I'm focusing my work on the children of those who pretend to be Kmtyw-centered. The children may not yet have come to accept that being for in word and against in action (read as triflin') is "okay".
QuoteObadele Kambon;52374 wrote: In that case, I'm focusing my work on the children of those who pretend to be Kmtyw-centered. The children may not yet have come to accept that being for in word and against in action is "okay".
Now that's a krakkker-slappin good idea!
QuoteAkhu;52382 wrote: Now that's a krakkker-slappin good idea!
You KNOW i gotta use that.
There's an Akan proverb that says, "Kɔmfoɔ gyimi a, na ne bosom nso gyimi" or If the Diviner becomes stupid, so will his/her Deity. If the Diviner is not vigilant then what should we expect from the Deity?