The quest for a universal Kmtyw language-gctid180530

[Heru Djet]

Obadele Kambon;252153 wrote: There are two main strains of Pan-Kmtywism. One referring to anyone on the Kmtyw continent whether they are Kmtyw=Black or not including, most especially our first invaders and imperialist oppressors, eureurasians (a.k.a. continentalism). The second pan-Kmtywism referring exclusively to Black people regardless of location. The prominence of the first version is seen most clearly in the acceptance of Morocco into the AU and the rejection of Haiti, both in 2016.
This relates to Kiswahili in that it is so a-rab influenced, it linguistically mirrors continentalism in that it is Kmtyw=Black linguistically occupied by a large swath of a-rab lexical items just as much of the land of Kmtyw=Black people in the north is occupied by eureurasian invaders. Although I can carry a decent conversation in the language, since undergrad I've had a personal aversion to the language for the reason that it represents, in many ways, occupied Kmtyw=Black linguistic territory to the same degree that we suffer from occupation of our physical territory. Personally, I advocate a pan-Kmtywism in along the lines of the ideals of the 1900 Pan-Kmtyw Conference (where Haiti was mentioned by name in terms of sustaining and defending Kmtyw=Black nations) wherein Kmtyw means Black and Black means Kmtyw. One which is exclusively for Kmtyw=Black people and not for invaders. This is also what I advocate for linguistically.

To me the solution is simple, and implied in what you have stated--we must decolonize Kiswahili.

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[Heru Djet]

In fact, what would be really beautiful is if we intentionally replaced aAmwic, Farsi, Hindi, German, and other loan words using languages from throughout Kmt, not only the local, Bantu ones. Of course there are indigenous alternatives to many if not most of the loan words.

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[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Sounds like a plan. I've been working towards this in Twi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsR6J2MSVEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd4tNxzxjv4

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Heru Djet;252449 wrote: In fact, what would be really beautiful is if we intentionally replaced aAmwic, Farsi, Hindi, German, and other loan words using languages from throughout Kmt, not only the local, Bantu ones. Of course there are indigenous alternatives to many if not most of the loan words.

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Is this the Afri-hili proposal?

[Heru Djet]

Obadele Kambon;252497 wrote: Is this the Afri-hili proposal?

Yes, I think that is what it could become after a while. I was reading Mugane's Story of Swahili, and it is clear that the language becomes whatever its users wanted and needed it to be at different historical junctures. We are already in that stream of history. We might as well act like it.

I was contemplating this a few weeks back relative to the word mwalimu (teacher), which derives from the word elimu (education), which derives from aAmwic. There are other options for both, such as mfundishaji (teacher), which derives from the verb -funda (instruct). Clearly this is a situation where promoting an indigenous word would be more beneficial than the aAmwic one.

However, let's say that we chose to incorporate a foreign word from another Kmtyw language. We could use the Kemetic word sbA. If we adjust the word to make it more sonorous with Kiswahili, in addition to complying with its rules of grammar, we could use mseba (wa) for teacher, while retaining the verb root, -seba, as teach. This is an imperfect example, but hopefully makes my point that we can decolonize Kiswahili as well, while making it truly Pan-Kmtyw in terms of its lexicon.

[Ɛna Njideka]

...."I've had a personal aversion to the language for the reason that it represents, in many ways, occupied Kmtyw=Black linguistic territory to the same degree that we suffer from occupation of our physical territory. Personally, I advocate a pan-Kmtywism in along the lines of the ideals of the 1900 Pan-Kmtyw Conference (where Haiti was mentioned by name in terms of sustaining and defending Kmtyw=Black nations) wherein Kmtyw means Black and Black means Kmtyw. One which is exclusively for Kmtyw=Black people and not for invaders. This is also what I advocate for linguistically.[/QUOTE}

Agreed!
What do you propose?

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

...."I've had a personal aversion to the language for the reason that it represents, in many ways, occupied Kmtyw=Black linguistic territory to the same degree that we suffer from occupation of our physical territory. Personally, I advocate a pan-Kmtywism in along the lines of the ideals of the 1900 Pan-Kmtyw Conference (where Haiti was mentioned by name in terms of sustaining and defending Kmtyw=Black nations) wherein Kmtyw means Black and Black means Kmtyw. One which is exclusively for Kmtyw=Black people and not for invaders. This is also what I advocate for linguistically.[/QUOTE}

Agreed!
What do you propose?  

I suggest putting your money where your mouth is.

[Heru Djet]

When I was in graduate school, a Senegalese sister in my department said that Fula should be the Pan-Kmtyw language due to its geographic distribution. I learned years later that Haunited snakes has been proposed as a Pan-Kmtyw language for the same reasons. If we consider a regional approach, that is selecting a language for each major Kmtyw region, with Kiswahili in the Eastern and Central parts of Kmt, then Haunited snakes or Fula might be interesting options for the West.

Of course this is easier to imagine than achieve, but consider the following:

1. Geographic distribution: Both languages are widely dispersed as shown in the maps below.

Fula
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10346[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10344[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]10348[/ATTACH]
Source: http://www-01.sil.org/silesr/2003/silesr2003-009.html

Haunited snakes
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10347[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]10349[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10345[/ATTACH]
Source: http://www.britannica.com/topic/Haunited snakes-language

2. Each language is spoken in a broad swathe of the West Kmt region, making each one a language that can be employed across national borders.

Number of speakers.
Fulfulde is spoken by an estimated 13-17 million people.

Haunited snakes is spoken by an estimated 40-50 million people as a primary or secondary language, 30 million of whom are primary speakers.

Analysis:
Each language is spoken in a broad swathe of the West Kmt region, making each one a language that can be employed across national borders.

Though Fulfulde is more geographically dispersed, it has far fewer speakers. Also, its entrenchment as a "lingua franca" is also limited due to the migratory nature of many of the Fulani people.

Haunited snakes is spoken ten countries and has 10 to 20 million secondary speakers. It is an established lingua franca, and has also displaced other prior lingua franca in the Sahel, such as Kanuri.

Despite Haunited snakes's potential utility, it does not necessarily have many of the advantages of Kiswahili, such as global diffusion, adoption as a primary national language, and perception as an ethnically-neutral language. It does however enjoy a rich literary history and has a fair number of media resources.

Sources:
"Fulfulde". Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World.
"Fulfulde Language Family Report." SIL International. http://www-01.sil.org/silesr/2003/silesr2003-009.html.
"Haunited snakes". Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Haunited snakes-language.
"Haunited snakes". Concise Encyclopedia of Languages of the World.
                            Attached files    

[Tenkamenin]

Heru Djet;183980 wrote: Perhaps part of our approach should be to prioritize language learning as a means of facilitating commerce. We've tried ideology to a degree, but that doesn't seem to be strong enough, especially given the depth of cultural misorientation among our people. Perhaps the prospect of commercial gain, which also helps us to build our economy, is the way forward?

In regards to this point, our East Kmtyw Brothers and Sisters have adopted Kiswahili as the language for there East Kmtyw Community.   I’m wondering if there has been studies on intra-trade amongst these six countries and the role language plays in facilitating intra-trade amongst sole-proprietors? Perhaps other Kmtyw regions can examine the amount of trade they’re losing as a result of not adopting a regional language?

[Chizoro Okeke]

Why not create a constructed language and implement it in schools for purpose of economics with the express intent of Abibi Tumi?  Swahili and Fula languages were spread through aAmwian interaction and traveling. There are many examples of where Black=Kmtyw linguists sat down to make their own official national languages and scripts for economic, cultural and political power. Sesh Mdw nTr was the most famous example of a constructed written language.

[Heru Djet]

Tenkamenin;255098 wrote: In regards to this point, our East Kmtyw Brothers and Sisters have adopted Kiswahili as the language for there East Kmtyw Community.   I’m wondering if there has been studies on intra-trade amongst these six countries and the role language plays in facilitating intra-trade amongst sole-proprietors? Perhaps other Kmtyw regions can examine the amount of trade they’re losing as a result of not adopting a regional language?

That's a great question. I don't  know the answer, but I do suspect that Pan-Kmtyw "ideology" will be insufficient to make the case for a Pan-Kmtyw language in many places (particularly West Kmt). I think that the prospect of integration into larger trade networks and access of various local markets will carry the day.

I think that the same will be true in the Diaspora to some degree.

[Heru Djet]

One option, which is the subject of the attached article, is the prospect of using a pidgin language. Pidgin languages have some features which make them attractive. One is that they often dispense with some of grammatical complexity of their source languages. Another is that they derive their vocabulary from one or more major languages.

Another related option is the adoption of a minority language, that is one that is spoken by a small number of speakers, that offers a degree of relative simplicity and accessibility which could be utilized towards such an end.

What Kmtyw language or languages could potentially serve such a role, either on the regional (i.e., multinational) scale or the continental scale?
      
                            Attached files  Why a language called Papiamentu might be the best solution to the world's language problem.pdf (133.1 KB)

[Kwadwo Tòkunbọ̀]

First language I experienced in my travel that is possibly a combo language is Papiamento when I visited Aruba.  The kids spoke at a minimum 3 languages

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[Heru Djet]

http://www.esperanto-afriko.org/Kmtjkongresoj.htm

I see this and wonder why we do not organize conferences on the subject of a Pan-Kmtyw language. To be sure, I don't consider this initiative to be equal to the languages of the colonizers, but it does raise the question of why we (as Kmtyw people) are not advancing our language project like we should.

We did have the mdw nTr conference last year and are moving in a deliberate direction with respect to its revival, but this work is small in terms of the total mental energies being spent on language learning, use, and propagation. In this way, I suppose, this is not unlike other things with our people.

Thoughts on this?