What is the role of whites in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems-gctid25728

[pain]

Now THAT^^^ is what I'm talkin' bout!!!!!!!!!!

Much thanks for that info Obadele.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

pain wrote: Now THAT^^^ is what I'm talkin' bout!!!!!!!!!!

Much thanks for that info Obadele.

Anything for the BlackNificent! In places where the Kmtyws are smart, the Abosom are also smart.

¡k¡mfo¡ gyimi a, na ne bosom nso agyimi.

/me

[pain]

[ch390 wrote: kyeame Kwame]

Now THAT^^^ is what I'm talkin' bout!!!!!!!!!!

Much thanks for that info Obadele.

Anything for the BlackNificent! In places where the Kmtyws are smart, the Abosom are also smart.

¡k¡mfo¡ gyimi a, na ne bosom nso agyimi.

/me

Hey Obadele, what exactly does that mean about the smarts of Kmtyws and Abosom. Forgive me, but sometimes I miss stuff right in front of my own eyes.

Also, do people approach what happened in Larteh as "just a Larteh thing" or is it recognize that the Abosom in Larteh are the same Abosom everywhere else and what this is meant to carry everywhere? I ask that because I've heard that practices differ from region to region. I'm thinking that there must be some universal laws.

Medase

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

The level of knowledge of people can influence what an ¡bosom conveys through them. If the person, for example, speaks no Kmtyw language, most often the ¡bosom who possesses that person will not be speaking an Kmtyw language (I have heard of exceptions to this rule, but I have not seen some with my own eyes). If the people are about nationbuilding and reKmtywization, this is a message that is constantly on the lips of the Abosom who possess those people. If the people are about using Kmtyw spirituality to get better jobs working for y.t. then this is the message that I have found to be on the lips of the Abosom who possess them. Thus the proverb: ¡k¡mfo¡ gyimi a, na ne bosom nso agyimi.

/me

[pain]

Understood and much thanks!

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

pain wrote: Understood and much thanks!

Yoo, y¢nni aseda o!

/me

[GoddessofLight]

Hey Obadele, what exactly does that mean about the smarts of Kmtyws and Abosom. Forgive me, but sometimes I miss stuff right in front of my own eyes.

Also, do people approach what happened in Larteh as "just a Larteh thing" or is it recognize that the Abosom in Larteh are the same Abosom everywhere else and what this is meant to carry everywhere? I ask that because I've heard that practices differ from region to region. I'm thinking that there must be some universal laws.

Medase

There is a book, The Ashanti, by Col. RS Ratray, a brit from Oxford University in England. He was in the Bono Area of Ghana, (North of Kumasi) for years and managed to learn Twi, the book is an excellent record of Bono culture in the 1920's. Anyway, he asked to be able to have a shrine to take back to England with him. The god Ta Kra (spelled Kora in the book, but pronounced Tah Kra), told him, that he could come and make offering at his shrine, they could do work for him for protection of his family, to help him succeed in life, to insure his health, etc. But to give the white man one of his children to take home that he could not do....

That speaks for itself and is a good guideline for any priest. They cannot acquire our gods...period...

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote:

Hey Obadele, what exactly does that mean about the smarts of Kmtyws and Abosom. Forgive me, but sometimes I miss stuff right in front of my own eyes.

Also, do people approach what happened in Larteh as "just a Larteh thing" or is it recognize that the Abosom in Larteh are the same Abosom everywhere else and what this is meant to carry everywhere? I ask that because I've heard that practices differ from region to region. I'm thinking that there must be some universal laws.

Medase

There is a book, The Ashanti, by Col. RS Ratray, a brit from Oxford University in England. He was in the Bono Area of Ghana, (North of Kumasi) for years and managed to learn Twi, the book is an excellent record of Bono culture in the 1920's. Anyway, he asked to be able to have a shrine to take back to England with him. The god Ta Kra (spelled Kora in the book, but pronounced Tah Kra), told him, that he could come and make offering at his shrine, they could do work for him for protection of his family, to help him succeed in life, to insure his health, etc. But to give the white man one of his children to take home that he could not do....

That speaks for itself and is a good guideline for any priest. They cannot acquire our gods...period...

The Abosom giving white people health and helping them to succeed in life?

With this info I'm like the Comcast turtle. "Eeeaahh I don't know about that one. Sounds like a bit of a stretch."

I had heard about it before but it's a white man saying it so I got to be skeptical. Doesn't seem consistent with what I've heard.

[GoddessofLight]

Read the book.  Remember the gods do not have our same political biases.  They will cure anyone of disease. I have seen them do it. In Techiman, they cured a woman from the Netherlands of cancer that her own doctors couldn't cure her of. In Nigeria, I saw a woman come back to give Orisa Oko an offering of thanks for curing her of pancreatic cancer. The god told her if she had come just a month later he couldn't have helped her. I saw Sakpana (Obaluaiye) cure a Nigerian and his eureurasiaan partner in decandence of AIDS...they had to swear on the god not to go back into the same deviant behavior...the eureurasiaan did and died on the steps of the largest mosque in Kano a week later, his stomach burst open. No one would touch him and they burned his body on the steps of the mosque. The Nigerian brother moved back to his home village in Ofo and is still alive well and healthy today, raising his children ...he was cured 10years ago.... They will assist if the petition is just and does not cause harm to their own.  The god makes the decision if he/she will accept the case. The gods are not like people.  They are not biased.  They do however STAY IN THEIR LINEAGES....that is why I say white people can never manifest their power, the have their own gods and spirits prior to christianity and should stick to them...

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

GoddessofLight wrote:

Hey Obadele, what exactly does that mean about the smarts of Kmtyws and Abosom. Forgive me, but sometimes I miss stuff right in front of my own eyes.

Also, do people approach what happened in Larteh as "just a Larteh thing" or is it recognize that the Abosom in Larteh are the same Abosom everywhere else and what this is meant to carry everywhere? I ask that because I've heard that practices differ from region to region. I'm thinking that there must be some universal laws.

Medase

There is a book, The Ashanti, by Col. RS Ratray, a brit from Oxford University in England. He was in the Bono Area of Ghana, (North of Kumasi) for years and managed to learn Twi, the book is an excellent record of Bono culture in the 1920's. Anyway, he asked to be able to have a shrine to take back to England with him. The god Ta Kra (spelled Kora in the book, but pronounced Tah Kra), told him, that he could come and make offering at his shrine, they could do work for him for protection of his family, to help him succeed in life, to insure his health, etc. But to give the white man one of his children to take home that he could not do....

That speaks for itself and is a good guideline for any priest. They cannot acquire our gods...period...

I hear you saying that this is a good guideline for any priest. What do you say of priests who initiate whites?

In your experience, are the whites acquiring our Abosom or are these Babaláwo, Vodunsi and Ak¡mfo¡ simply pulling pranks on whites and saying that the whites are getting them? Are the Abosom hopping out of pots when whites touch them or are they staying. Are these Babaláwo sell-outs, selling Abosom to whites or are they just pretending?

I know otherwise powerful and able Ak¡mfo¡ who sincerely think that they are doing the right thing by taking whites through initiation and who we have had to distance ourselves from based on their anti-Kmtyw ways.

/me

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote: Read the book. Remember the gods do not have our same political biases. They will cure anyone of disease. I have seen them do it. In Techiman, they cured a woman from the Netherlands of cancer that her own doctors couldn't cure her of. In Nigeria, I saw a woman come back to give Orisa Oko an offering of thanks for curing her of pancreatic cancer. The god told her if she had come just a month later he couldn't have helped her. I saw Sakpana (Obaluaiye) cure a Nigerian and his eureurasiaan partner in decandence of AIDS...they had to swear on the god not to go back into the same deviant behavior...the eureurasiaan did and died on the steps of the largest mosque in Kano a week later, his stomach burst open. No one would touch him and they burned his body on the steps of the mosque. The Nigerian brother moved back to his home village in Ofo and is still alive well and healthy today, raising his children ...he was cured 10years ago.... They will assist if the petition is just and does not cause harm to their own. The god makes the decision if he/she will accept the case. The gods are not like people. They are not biased. They do however STAY IN THEIR LINEAGES....that is why I say white people can never manifest their power, the have their own gods and spirits prior to christianity and should stick to them...

It seems that what it's going to come down to is that I have to get the information from the Abosom directly about how they relate to "white people" because it is not a matter of politics to help "white people" to be healthy and successful to continue the system and practice of racism white supremacy against us. I don't see it as a bias (as in an injustice) to not help "white people" to continue to be in a position to practice "racism white supremacy" against us. If the Abosom exist to establish and maintain divine law and order, how can they offer help to those who live to pervert it? That doesn't show that they exercise any judgment at all and that's very odd to me.

[GoddessofLight]

pain wrote:

Read the book.  Remember the gods do not have our same political biases.  They will cure anyone of disease. I have seen them do it.  In Techiman, they cured a woman from the Netherlands of cancer that her own doctors couldn't cure her of.  In Nigeria, I saw a woman come back to give Orisa Oko an offering of thanks for curing her of pancreatic cancer.  The god told her if she had come just a month later he couldn't have helped her.  I saw Sakpana (Obaluaiye) cure a Nigerian and his eureurasiaan partner in decandence of AIDS...they had to swear on the god not to go back into the same deviant behavior...the eureurasiaan did and died on the steps of the largest mosque in Kano a week later, his stomach burst open.  No one would touch him and they burned his body on the steps of the mosque.  The Nigerian brother moved back to his home village in Ofo and is still alive well and healthy today, raising his children ...he was cured 10years ago.... They will assist if the petition is just and does not cause harm to their own.  The god makes the decision if he/she will accept the case.  The gods are not like people.  They are not biased.  They do however STAY IN THEIR LINEAGES....that is why I say white people can never manifest their power, the have their own gods and spirits prior to christianity and should stick to them...

It seems that what it's going to come down to is that I have to get the information from the Abosom directly about how they relate to "white people" because it is not a matter of politics to help "white people" to be healthy and successful to continue the system and practice of racism white supremacy against us. I don't see it as a bias (as in an injustice) to not help "white people" to continue to be in a position to practice "racism white supremacy" against us. If the Abosom exist to establish and maintain divine law and order, how can they offer help to those who live to pervert it? That doesn't show that they exercise any judgment at all and that's very odd to me.

Sure it does. There are some white people who don't give anyone else any thought.  They are not actively involved in the game of White Supremacy.  I say actively because every white person benefits to a degree simply because they are white.  But they are not out actively destroying or seeking ways to destroy the Kmtyw.  They live in their own countris, communities, go to work, come home, pray to their god, celebrate their holidays and don't bother anyone....For what reason would a god deny them help....How are they hurting anyone else?  NO one in this instance is talking about giving the oyinbos or abronis power or initiation or anything...it was going to a specialist for treatment...the specialist just happened to be a god in Kmt that had the power to cure.  These were just two physically ill white people who came for help and were cured.  Where is the furthering of white supremacy in that?  They were not initiated or given any other power other than healing from the god. The Kmtyw view of God also includes a compassionate God....and as the Abosum are his children they would have compassion too....to take it a step further the Kmtyw on the continent does not have the same view of the white man as we do...that is why some make the decision on their own and independently that they will initiate white people...because they don't see them as we do.  It is part of the work of the god to heal...and that what was done.  I honestly believe that we pay far too much attention to white people and what they are doing or not doing and thereby give them way too much power over us....the more you speak on something the more power you give it. First define Divine Law and Order from the TRADITIONAL Kmtyw PERSPECTIVE....and then tell me how healing violates that LAW....

[pain]

I wanted to address something else as well with that last post of yours GoddessofLight. You stated at first:

"They will cure anyone of disease."

Then later you stated:

"They will assist if the petition is just and does not cause harm to their own."

This seems like a contradiction to me. If it is the former then that frightens me to no end. It tells me that if P.W. Botha had been brought to the Abosom, Orisa, Vodu, Arusi etc., and so on for help that he would be guaranteed that help. That's scares me to death!

If it is the latter then once again, how can they, based on your observations, help "white people" to continue to practice and benefit from the system of racism white supremacy? The culture of racism white supremacy not only causes damage to Kmtyw people but to the planet as well, the rivers, the air, the trees that these Abosom dwell within.

I take issue with the term "political bias" as if we don't have any issue of substance against "white people." With the information that Obadele gave earlier he stated in part:

"and the Abosom said that whites were given access to the knowledge once, never again."

Is that not bias?

I'm frightened right now because I have nowhere to go after this. I began looking for the truth when I was 14 years old because at that time I recognized that there was something odd about our situation in the world. I recognized world-wide racism white supremacy being practiced against us and I sought to find out why things were this way and how we could solve this problem. I studied long and hard from that time on. I made my way out of Christianity. Started studying Islam, but I made my way out of that as well. Had many other little groups here and there that I would fall into. Then I got to Kemetic spirituality and culture which then led me to Traditional Kmtyw Spirituality and specifically to Akan spirituality and culture. I didn't come all this way to "escape" from the reality of racism white supremacy. I've learned a lot about the culture and the spiritual system and it seems that a very basic lesson I've learned about it is that it is meant to solve problems that afflict us as well as our environment.

My dilemma earlier was the cloudiness surrounding the issue of how the Abosom, Orisa, Vodu, Arusi, etc., relate to "white people." Obadele helped to clear things up. It made perfect sense to me. What you are saying, Goddessoflight, throws me right back into that haze.

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote:

Read the book. Remember the gods do not have our same political biases. They will cure anyone of disease. I have seen them do it. In Techiman, they cured a woman from the Netherlands of cancer that her own doctors couldn't cure her of. In Nigeria, I saw a woman come back to give Orisa Oko an offering of thanks for curing her of pancreatic cancer. The god told her if she had come just a month later he couldn't have helped her. I saw Sakpana (Obaluaiye) cure a Nigerian and his eureurasiaan partner in decandence of AIDS...they had to swear on the god not to go back into the same deviant behavior...the eureurasiaan did and died on the steps of the largest mosque in Kano a week later, his stomach burst open. No one would touch him and they burned his body on the steps of the mosque. The Nigerian brother moved back to his home village in Ofo and is still alive well and healthy today, raising his children ...he was cured 10years ago.... They will assist if the petition is just and does not cause harm to their own. The god makes the decision if he/she will accept the case. The gods are not like people. They are not biased. They do however STAY IN THEIR LINEAGES....that is why I say white people can never manifest their power, the have their own gods and spirits prior to christianity and should stick to them...

It seems that what it's going to come down to is that I have to get the information from the Abosom directly about how they relate to "white people" because it is not a matter of politics to help "white people" to be healthy and successful to continue the system and practice of racism white supremacy against us. I don't see it as a bias (as in an injustice) to not help "white people" to continue to be in a position to practice "racism white supremacy" against us. If the Abosom exist to establish and maintain divine law and order, how can they offer help to those who live to pervert it? That doesn't show that they exercise any judgment at all and that's very odd to me.

Sure it does. There are some white people who don't give anyone else any thought. They are not actively involved in the game of White Supremacy. I say actively because every white person benefits to a degree simply because they are white. But they are not out actively destroying or seeking ways to destroy the Kmtyw. They live in their own countris, communities, go to work, come home, pray to their god, celebrate their holidays and don't bother anyone....For what reason would a god deny them help....How are they hurting anyone else? NO one in this instance is talking about giving the oyinbos or abronis power or initiation or anything...it was going to a specialist for treatment...the specialist just happened to be a god in Kmt that had the power to cure. These were just two physically ill white people who came for help and were cured. Where is the furthering of white supremacy in that? They were not initiated or given any other power other than healing from the god. The Kmtyw view of God also includes a compassionate God....and as the Abosum are his children they would have compassion too....to take it a step further the Kmtyw on the continent does not have the same view of the white man as we do...that is why some make the decision on their own and independently that they will initiate white people...because they don't see them as we do. It is part of the work of the god to heal...and that what was done. I honestly believe that we pay far too much attention to white people and what they are doing or not doing and thereby give them way too much power over us....the more you speak on something the more power you give it. First define Divine Law and Order from the TRADITIONAL Kmtyw PERSPECTIVE....and then tell me how healing violates that LAW....

"In traditional Kmt, the individual is not separated and understood apart from the community. The term, person, implies fusion with the community. It points to the incorporation of the individual into the community and the incorporation of the community in the individual's heart. In other words, a person is one who has been incorporated into the community and who has placed in his/her heart the virtues and values that the society or community views as being essential to be called a person."

Elleni Tedla
Sankofa

People speak about "white people" as if they're talking about a "race" of people as opposed to a social construct such as a business group, a corporation, a syndicate etc., The term "white people" denotes people who look a certain way who therefore get to function a certain way in society that others who look differently do not.

Let's be perfectly clear about what we're talking about here.

It's KEY that we know the definition for "white person"/ "white race"/ "white people" under the system of racism white supremacy. This is significant because "white people" only exist under the system of racism white supremacy. The system of racism white supremacy came into being when tribes of pale skinned, straight-haired people such as the Scythians, Aryans, Ostragoths, Visigoths, Franks, Vandals, Lombards, Burgundians, Latins, Etruscans, Gauls, Nordic tribes such as the Mycenaeans, Slavs and the Dorics, the Alans, Suevi, Saxons, Alemanni, Thuringians, Rugians, Bavarians etc., invaded the lands of our ancestors and ancestresses. It is then and ONLY then that these people become "white people." It is then and ONLY then that this game of color is played. They weren't going around among themselves referring to each other as white. Why? Because the term "white people" isn't about them being white. They ARE NOT WHITE!! This is common sense. We can look at them and see this. There are no people on the face of the earth that have such an appearance. The term "white people" is not a reference to a "race" of people. It is not a reference to an "ethnic group" of people. The term "white people" is a reference to a group/ organization/ corporation/ consortium of individuals with certain physical characteristics that get to FUNCTION/ OPERATE in a specific and distinct way that "other" groups of people do not. The term "white people" is no different conceptually than the term "Nazi", "Cancer", "AT&T" or "American Military." The major difference is that the concept now called "white people" has over 3, 000 years of sophistication designed to confuse the victims thereof.

Did every single person in the Nazi Regime/ Military kill "jews and others"? No!
Has everyone that has been in the American military killed someone? No!

However, if you find yourself as a group who, by design, are against the ideology being violently promulgated by another group it makes no sense whatsoever to ever help a member of that group.

You pointed out that the white person may simply benefit from the practice/ system of racism white supremacy but not actually practice it. Even if this is the case, why would there be no requirement for a white person (who benefits from the slaughter and oppression of untold hundreds of millions of our people worldwide for over 3,000 years now by their own people) to use the white privilege that they are afforded by the slaughter and oppression of our people to end the system of racism white supremacy? Why would there be no requirement for a white person (who is the primary beneficiary of the destruction of the environment the Abosom reside in) to use the white privilege they are afforded by the destruction of the environment by their people to end the system/ practice of racism white supremacy through which they perpetrate this injustice? White people have made it so that unless you live totally off of the grid and are raising your own food or buying food from other people who live the same way you do totally independent of ANYTHING to do with their societies, YOU ARE OTHERWISE SUPPORTING IT! The natural resources that they take from the earth through exploitation of peoples, most notably Kmtyw peoples, are required for the motor vehicles, planes, trains, computers, cell phones, refrigerators, etc., Once again, why would the people who primarily benefit from such a system and support such a system not be required to end it in the best way they know how as their people have demonstrated for over 3,000 years in the many different systems, nations, civilizations that they have ended.

Once again, that makes no sense. This is stating that as long as the "white person" isn't an overseer on the plantation whipping our ancestors - as long as he is just one of the many white people who benefit & support the exploitation by using the cotton, enjoying the rice, sugar and tobacco among other things that were provided by our blood, sweat and tears then the Abosom will help them however they can.

Also, I reject the notion that we think too much about white people and that we give them power that way. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. It comes off as escapism. They are the main reason why we are in the situation we are in today in Kmt and in the diaspora. I've never heard that if people have a problem they should not think about it because thinking about it gives it power. If you simply don't want to have the discussion yourself then so be it, but do not attempt to use that classic psychological tactic to get us to shut up about the dire effects of the practice of racism white supremacy on our people and on the planet please.

[pain]

pain wrote: Once again, that makes no sense. This is stating that as long as the "white person" isn't an overseer on the plantation whipping our ancestors - as long as he is just one of the many white people who benefit & support the exploitation by using the cotton, enjoying the rice, sugar and tobacco among other things that were provided by our blood, sweat and tears then the Abosom will help them however they can.[/b]

What more, if this were true then it would mean that the Abosom, Orisa, Arusi etc., supported and continue to support our oppression and the destruction of the environment they reside in as well. This is absolutely backwards.