What is the role of whites in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems-gctid25728

[Ib-Ra-Hima]

@bro. Charles and those participating on this thread: I have to admit I find myself even becoming a bit emotional about this topic in the sense of my earnest wish that my brothers and sisters would see the folly in the position they have taken on this topic. I just can't believe how easily we have taken the bait of distraction on this topic and perhaps I myself am contributing to it by way of continuing my discourse on a matter that is no matter at all in respect to the world of the Divine and this planet. Perhaps we should consult the elders and High priests and priestesses in this matter instead of going back and forth, myself included, with the limited knowledge I have been given about these matters, on a forum that puts questions like these up for a vote, as if our opinions, on an issue as serious as Spirituality and ritual offerings to the DIVINE World, hold any sway what so ever. Come to think of it, what purpose does any of our opinions have? This another trap of the colonial system we have fallen into. Our belief in our opinions and speculations. This is very much uncommon and discouraged in traditional society. Traditionally, we will quote paAmwles and proverbs in matters of dispute and follow the logic of our elders and Ancestral authorities to resolve such cases. For things we have no KNOWLEDGE of, we dare not address it.

So the question "Do Whites have a role in Kmtyw Spirituality", is no place for our speculation and conjecture... putting a thing like this to a vote as if asking our opinion of a song-and-dance act, on prime time TV. So we go back and forth, and on and on in our Westernized arrogant pride and ego driven corruption and lack of humility. You know the kind that will never admit being wrong or having made a mistake or maybe not knowing. The kind we build our "conscious" identity around, the persona some of us assume, that has been established on all the most distasteful qualities we would attribute to the devilish YTZ, like anger, hate, vengefulness, bitterness, vindictiveness, arrogance, haughtiness etc. so that stripped of all our "conscious" vernacular and perhaps traditional clothes and our Black skin, we sound and project the same behavior the barbaric system uses against us. Anytime we find ourselves making a scornful face, using scornful language, having scornful thoughts toward ANYONE or even anything, KNOW that this a recipe and invitation for SETH to exploit. Because it is in that energy and attitude that the most heinous acts of human depravity and barbarism begin to unfold. The longer it goes unchecked SETH takes up active residence and dominance, riding the individual like a horse, while spreading this negativity... then you would be surprised at how low a human being can become, feeling fully justified in his misdeeds, when in fact, there is NO justification for evil. Some of us are so deep into our arrogant projections, swollen with pride and even the pressure of relationships we've built around shared OPINIONS and attitudes, that it is too hard to back down and say we just don't KNOW or I was wrong! This is where SETH wants us, right in that sweet spot, where we forfeit our obligation to GOODNESS and TRUTH for the sake of protecting our pride and saving face. Self destruction always comes with a sweet taste... Honesty and Humility will speak to the deep quality of our character, when we will be humble enough to speak the TRUTH even if it may change others' opinion of us or even alienate them. Goodness can come as a bitter pill that is ultimately most beneficial to our perfection. In the action-reaction modality we've been so well trained in, The Oppressed becomes the Oppressor. But again this should not surprise us when most of us were raised in a culture that does not place value in humility and being good but instead literally belittles those peaceful and teachable qualities, depicting them as weak. Again, can we see SETH at work here?! This is a Spiritual battle we are fighting and SETH is real! But so is HERU! Every action has a consequence, better to suffer the consequence for doing what is RIGHT and BEING GOOD, by containing Evil, than to face the consequence of succumbing to SETH.

So let me, in this light, admit my own arrogance and presumptuousness in thinking I have a place in such a discussion, as if I have spoken to the World of Neteru regarding this. All I have is the teachings I have been exposed to from those who DO interact with the Divine World in the Niger Valley of Meritah/Kmt, specifically the DOGON. If the moderator who introduced this topic is truly seeking an honest answer to an honest question, maybe they should not put it to something as trivial as an online vote, and mainly to individuals who live in a world filled with so many people who have been conditioned as I have, to stake their reputations and even life on their opinions and speculations or that of others' conjectures and theses, turned immutable fact. Maybe they should put these types of questions to the people who actually KNOW!

It is not my wish to offend anyone and it is in humility that I ask that others do not take offense where none is intended. I realize that there are those who do not and still will not see the sense in posing the question that started this discussion to those who are actually qualified to answer it. So to them I will ask, what is your agenda or purpose for pursuing this question, if it is not to get an honest answer?

Want to Change the World... start by changing the SELF!

Ntr Dua!

Ib-Ra-Hima

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

I used to think that if people got enough information that they could change. I no longer think that. A person requires some element of sense to be able to know how to filter and apply the information and that can't be given. The person has to choose that. That being said, this reply is not directed at Ib-Ra-Hima, per se, but just for the record so that no one who happens upon this thread in the future will think that the founder(s) of this site are for whites in Kmtyw spiritual systems or would intentionally interact with spirits that are for such things.

A few years ago in Larteh, Ghana, an older Ɔkɔmfo brought a white "person" to the head shrine for the Abosom that she herself works with to be trained. The elders were brought together and the Abosom were consulted on the matter and the divination came back with the answer that the white "person" would not be allowed to train. That their predecessors had come to destroy, steal and corrupt the culture. That the mistake of welcoming them in before had been made but would not be made again.

This is an indication that these particular spirits and the people who work with them have learned something since 1471 when the portuguese arrived here.

Now did the older Ɔkɔmfo consult the Abosom before bringing the white "person"? Perhaps. If she did, how could the verdict on the issue be different for her than for the head shrine here in Ghana? Perhaps for the same reason that coons and house knee-grows don't call the name of Nat Turner in libations...or prayers, or whatever they do. Perhaps such people can't or simply don't choose to tap into frequencies of spirits that are wise because they themselves are unwise. What I mean when I say wise is to have learned from experience.

I've been to Dogon land. The first thing that I encountered when I went there was a group of white "people" camped out in front of a church waiting for the festival to begin and a chief who called himself george that offered us coca-cola. Now if I got a divination from someone like george, what result would I expect to come back? If I got a divination from Bookman of Ayiti, what type of result would I expect to come back. I wouldn't think that they would be accessing the same end of the spiritual spectrum, that's for sure. If I want someone who has experience and wisdom in the movements of stars I'd go to one, if I want someone who has experience and wisdom in the movements of white "people" I'd go to the other.

Now, I could go on about the Blacks of Tasmania, the Hererro of Namibia, the Bakongo in the Congo or the Arawak for that matter, but I already know it wouldn't make a difference. Some people have consigned themselves to being 1470 Kmtyws. Those whose wisdom in relation to white "people" hasn't changed since before said white "people" first set foot on these shores. Who would be just as willing to initiate them now as they would have been before the 100 million+ Kmtyws made their way to the bottom of the so-called atlantic.

In short, if the people are unwise, the spirits that they deal with will reflect their level of understanding and will be just as willing to initiate white "people" as the people themselves are. If the "people" are vengeful, jealous, angry, wrathful, spiteful, etc, their "God" will be the same. Why? That's the only aspect of "spirit" that they can or choose to interact with. If the people haven't learned anything about what white "people" have done and continue to do every single place they have made contact with any people, the spirits they interact with will tend to be of the same level of wisdom. Even if a spirit was wise enough to warn them, would the people be able to or willing to heed the message? Ask Ɔkɔmfo Tuda.

(PS - my own interest in starting this thread was to find out who is wise here on the forum and who is not, at least in this particular area (again wisdom meaning having learned from experience). Getting the answer to the current topic is likely to get a more accurate result than asking "are you wise?" as most people are likely to answer yes to such a straightforward question.)

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Charles Stephenson;44880 wrote: Respect to Brother Ib Ra Hima. His post which was thought provoking and i agreed with a number things he said but I say this without being emotional, but looking thru the lens of history in our dealings with the eureurasiaan, there is no role for them in Kmtyw Spiritual systems. History tells me that whenever yt was let in destruction for the Kmtyw followed.:sankofa:

Now this is wise! :soldierg: :gyenyame: :soldiert: :sankofa:

[Okomfo Akosua]

@ Ib Ra-Hima  

These Kemetic Priests who now live in the Niger Valley in general, namely the Dogon as you have mentioned, are clear that the world of the Divine does not see human beings based on color.

I agree that we, the melanin dominant people, black, brown and red people  are to serve as the overseers and stewards of Mother Earth (Asaase Yaa) IN CONJUNCTION with other peoples of color who maintain good intent and higher levels of consciousness, Mother Earth Herself and the Divine Spirits and Divine and Benevolent ancestors whose interest and duty is to keep Divine Order in the Universe.  However, when you have a people who REFUSE and are INCAPABLE of abiding to Divine order, acting civilized as you say, respecting and honoring life, living in Balance and Harmony with all of Creation then there is simply NOTHING you can do for them.  Stone Henge has not worked thusfar!!!  
   

The idea of being "white" is a political designation not a literal one, as it is clear that there are no white people.

LOL

(Note: There is no mention of Yurugu as being a designation for the pale skin people.):p

Yurugu is also known as the pale fox which is interpreted as whites.

 
  Yurugu, originally named Ogo, is described in Dogon mythology as acting with "anxiety and impatience."  He is "incessantly restless," in search of the secrets of Amma (the creative principle), of which he want to "gain possession."  He is known for his aggressiveness and incompleteness.  He is in a state of solitude, having been deprived of his female principle; he is also impotent.  When Yurugu, "the pale fox," reaches his final form of development, he is "the permanent element of disorder in the universe," the "agent of disorganization."  He was "Marked" from birth for failure, to remain forever incomplete; to search perpetually for his female principle.  He is not only the agent of cosmic disorder but also of psychological individualization. – Page 556 of Yurugu by Nana Marimba Ani

[Okomfo Akosua]

@ Ib Ra-Hima  

So the Olmec or Manding people were rulers in Maanu/America for what reason? If we are to be a singular "race" of highly advanced spiritual beings based on melanin then what does that mean for all the other shades of human beings our blood brought into being?

Every "race" (black people, brown people, red people, yellow people) experienced a time in their history where they were highly advanced spiritual beings and their melanin content was a factor.  Depending on the amount of melanin one had determined their ability to interact with light or energy.  Their intent and level of consciousness also played a role.
   

I suppose then only the blue black Kmtyws can be the purest and closest to the Divine if skin darkness is the new emblem of enlightenment. But that would mean blacks in diaspora, many of whom are mixed would have to be those true blacks' enemy too because they would have no moral and spiritual guidelines due to the true blacks, enlightened originators as they are refuse to teach their own children for fear of what some ignorant ones are doing with it. So no body in the world deserves to learn the true mysteries because they are not racially pure enough. Those blue blacks should perhaps kill them all even us brown blacks because we're relatively light skinned and start the world over, careful only to teach the blackest of the black. Then because they carry the genetics of all humanity, when they have a yellow child maybe they will build a city of the damned to put him in and leave them all there to degenerate into animals in there ignorance so that there will be two different species of humans and the blue blacks will ascend to the level of being deified while the rest of us brown and other humans can hunt and eat one another or even a blue black if he is caught unprotected...

In the Universe, everything was created Divine and everything has its purpose.  If a person who is brown skinned to black skinned (melanin dominant or eumelanin), then she/he has the ability to interact with all aspects of the electromagnetic spectrum or light and energy more so than a being who is melanin recessive or white.   It is what it is.  However, that does not negate beings of a lighter hue (pale yellow to ruddy red).  They too have abilities that help and enrich their societies.  They too have a specialty, a gift that serves a purpose in the greater scheme of things.  Basically, all are a part of the whole.  As for yurugu, well they have shown us again and again what their purpose is and what drives them:  greed, deception, destruction, chaos, kwk.  Keep in mind that they were students once before.  They traveled to Kemet, the land of the Blacks and learned the mysteries.  What have they done with that information since then?  When you study their history, how was it beneficial?  They actually lied about the source of this information and took credit for it.  They were not good students then and they won't be good students now.  
   

I hope everyone by now sees how ridiculous this all sounds but if following the sentiments of brothers and sisters on this thread where things can go. It makes no sense! We are the original civilizers of humanity on this planet. The teachers and enlighteners of the world. WSR/Aunited snakesr taught agriculture, science and even Love to the entire world. Do we suppose that the Ancestral Deity of the entire human family didn't leave Kmt on his mission to bring civilizing knowledge to the earth?! It was on one such expedition that Aishat/Auset was left in charge of the Kingdom and upon his return was met the the treachery of Seth. So how then will the later priesthood totally deny a person access to the initiation and spiritual practices when this is what our Father died doing, civilizing the world. How dare we defile the honor of our Ancestral Deity by rejecting his legacy left to us as the embodiment of Heru? The whole world will be our enemy if WE don't teach them how to be civil and tolerant and Seth would have won against Heru. The mentality we have of closing ourselves off in fear and intolerance is exactly where Seth wants us, because now who will civilize the world and save it from slipping into total chaos... exactly what WSR/Aunited snakesr was fighting against.            

It is not fear but it is the intolerance of disorder and chaos.  In the spirit in Heru, we stand for order, balance and harmony!!!
   

See the battle between these two deities continues with Heru, who is embodied in us as human beings. People think these narratives are just fables but take time to examine them they are packed with the actual realities of our everyday lives.              

And this is why we have examined the story of yurugu.  It is reality and relative to us as Kmtyws in our everyday lives.
   

Any time we find our cultural quality of openness as oppose to xenophobia being diminished, anytime we sense our peacefulness being usurped by anger, animosity, resentment, anxiety etc., when we forget that as the root people we stabilize the entire tree as per our duty as the original cultural civilization of the world, we would have forefited our victory to Seth because Seth's desire is foment those negative qualities in humanity and watch the mayhem ensue.

Personally, I harbor no anger towards whites.  I no longer allow them to disrupt my peace because I have acknowledged the truth about them.  The truth does indeed set you free.  I am now free from the burden of fear, resentment, anxiety, kwk.  Besides, those thoughts and emotions are not good for the body.  Anger in particular can adversely affect the kidneys and I love my kidneys.
   

Who better to corrupt than the root people, turn them into the same barbarians they claim are undeserving of knowledge by preying on their weaknesses. For tens of thounited snakesnds of years we managed to keep our weaknesses in check, and all manner of people were on one accord, following the same basic values but since all things go in cycles there was a moment when some broke away and in their isolation were increased in their deviance. It was here that the Sethian forces sought to create a strong hold persuading small groups with ambition to move on territories ran peaceably under the human code of behavior. This battle still rages to this day when we look at what colonial countries are doing to the motherland but even more to the point how it has caused some of us who have suffered from the fall out of this battle to change. In our reduced and dejected state of near hopelessness we are reaching out to Seth. Let us not confuse this with some white skinned person but with a mentality and attitude only representative of Seth. IT IS A MINDSET! This is what is the true enemy not any skin color. This virus of a mindset is what YURUGU was all about. The book by Mama Marimba is not a biology book if you notice, it is primarily a book on the psychology of a people who are not operating in the way of Ankh. That can be any physical person if infected by this parasitic, psychopathic, pathological mindset. That is to say there are even "black" people, by that definition, who are really "white" and shouldn't be initiated. It is this mindset that probably makes it so rare to find genuine whites and shamefully to a large extent, "blacks" who actually want to be a part of real spiritual practice and initiation. We don't even need whites to create descent within our schools and temples, it's those whites in black skin that are burning temples in Merita/Kmt now. So again it's not skin color that determines who is worthy, it's mindset or values. So unless we stop using something as superficial as skin color to determin threat level and start using a code of behavior we won't have to worry about the whites in "our " rituals, it we be people as black as night in skin color sowing the seeds of our destruction right within our ranks... Who better!? I mean come on the one white dude that showed up to a ritual is gonna be the one to bring it down knowing he sticks out like a sore thumb?! For goodness sakes, they're making made-for-tv dramas more sophisticated than that! As they say in our culture 'no one ever got killed by the arrow they saw coming, it's the one that they didn't see that killed them.'

The presence of melanin and how it manifest in a person does matter and makes a difference in how the person interacts with her/his environment and everything in it.  
 
  Dr. Jewel Pookrum states that in addition to the HUEMAN variants or unique genetic expressions resulting in a different skin color, this also results in different tissue function, different blood chemistry, a different growth and development process, different neurological development and different thinking processes and behavior.

On pages 469 & 470 of Yurugu, Nana Marimba states Richard King's, (a black pyschiatrist) view on melanin and its significance.  
 
  "In King's view, with less melanin we could expect an over-all lower level of nervous system integration, less activity of the pineal gland, and therefore greater instance of pineal calcification.  This, in turn, might limit access to right-brain functions associated with the pineal gland; e.g., the development of intuitiveness, holistic, or "global" thinking, the ability to synthesize mentally, and the ability to comprehend spiritual truths.  The comparative lack of melanin in the melanocytes (for all human beings must produce melanin contrary to Welsing's implications) would render them less capable of understanding their emotional life.  In King's view, this, in combination with the demands of harsh environmental conditions caused the intensification of left-brain functions, which are cause and effect oriented, and it cut off the unconscious as a source of knowledge.  This would account for a materialist world-view, the emphasis on technology, and an inability to get beyond lineal concepts.  It would also account for intensely destructive behaviors on a cultural level stemming from the need for control, power and aggressiveness.  For King, melanin and the pineal gland are the keys to a deeper spiritual consciousness on which level human beings can integrate their understanding/knowledge to reach metaphysical truths that unlock the doors of the dark unconscious, bringing with it an emotional, and psychological sense of security:  a oneness with self, an inner peace."
 
    It is apparent that you have not read Yurugu by Nana Marimba.  If you have, you would understand that Nana does a phenomenal job in shedding light on not only the culture of whites but also the origin or nature of it which she calls asili.  She also dissects their world-view which she refers to as utamawazo.  When one reads her work in its entirety and also INNERSTANDS the power and significance of melanin, there is no longer the need to debate and argue this topic.  
 
  It appears that you have compassion for them and feel or believe that they should be given a chance.  Well, perhaps a few can be rehabilitated or salvaged into Divine Beings but it is important to be aware of such thinking and Nana Marimba says the following in regards to it;  
"We, Kmtyws, and other primary peoples also make such errors when we trust eureurasiaans and treat them as "family," taking them at their word.  The concept of asili has been created to prevent us from making these mistakes.  Using it, we can interpret eureurasiaan culture in terms of its own nature."  -  page 548 of Yurugu  and,

"There is no aspect of intercultural behavior in which the utamaroho will allow the eureurasiaan to be "taught" by majority peoples or to participate as a noncompeting equal.  (This is why the idea of Kmtyws seeking "equality" "from" eureurasiaans is an apolitical approach to reality.  Equally absurd is the attempt to "enlighten" or "change" them.)" - page 566 of Yurugu
 
  Therefore, the only solution to bringing peace and harmony to the Universe is to ERADICATE and ELIMINATE and there is nothing wrong with that.  The opposing forces to peace and harmony must go and yes, whites as well as blacks and whoever else who don't get it together will die out as well.

[Ib-Ra-Hima]

@ Bro. Okyeame and others on this thread: I am grateful for the forum to  have discussions concerning the issues our community and culture deal  with. I like the direction this discussion is taking because it takes  out of  the business of speculation and conjecture for the supposed sake of  determining who is "wise". Now we are getting to the root of things.  There is, in the education of the Dogon, a  teaching that emphasizes the importance of asking honest questions. Our  bro. Okyeame has raised this question to the conscious Kmtyw community  and in the witness of his ancestors with the sincere intent of finding  out who is wise. It appears our brother is taking our answers to this  serious question, that are not in support of some evidence he has come  across, from the great shrine of Ghana and a "questionable" Dogon  priest, as an indication of other brother's and sister's lack of wisdom.  My question is, if one already KNOWS from evidence presented from a  most respectable shrine, the answer to ones question, can it be an  HONEST question? What is the benefit or WISDOM in posing this question  to people who mostly don't and won't KNOW the answer and it is clear  that the questioner already has a point of view established about it?

This is the nature of a DISHONEST question. These types of questions  always lead to polemics because the questioner is not really seeking an  answer, as our brother clearly stated, that he had already concluded  about this question, based on his experience. So again we're back to  this point WHY? What is the purpose of seeing who is wise and how does  one establish the pedgree of an individual's wisdom with a question that  clearly requires having the experience of said Ghanian Spiritual temple  or brush with an apparent "sell-out" Dogon to be able to summon such  wisdom? Apparently there are some flaws in the logic behind the method  our brother is utilizing to establish a tally on wise people.

The experiences, or something similar, that allowed our brother to  establish an answer to his question, which he later posed to all on this  forum, should be part of our repertoire of experiences as well, if we  are to take the position of being wise in his estimation, by giving the  "correct" answer. This also infers that he considers himself wise and  further to be a judge of our wisdom. Yet perhaps true wisdom would have  prevailed in this case if our brother would have simply STATED  that "there is no room for whites in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems" and  followed with the aforementioned evidence. This would have been a more  courageous and perhaps enlightening stance, that one could take on an  issue one wished to address in our community, that could lead to some  appreciable and purposeful action. As it stands we have no solution  driven action coming out of this discussion because it was started to  establish who the wise people are. Not to mention the complete lack of a  thorough investigation of this matter aside from some arbitrary  anecdotes that have been taken as iron-clad proof, of a question that is  often asked with a bias to begin with. (A dishonest question)

I realize how harsh this seems but it is our duty to call one another to  task, in the spirit of Mahata/Ma'at. Too many times we have all these  high level discussions, myself included, and we don't deal on the level  of the subtleties, the holes in our logics, the creeping corruption of  arrogance and conceit that permeates up through the grand Rituals,  Initiations, and Divinations. Yet this is the real battle ground. Again  we don't have to worry about whites sabotaging our Spiritual Systems we  are managing that pretty well all by our selves when we leave these  things unaddressed.

Here is something to consider, unemotionally, which I know will touch  someone in just the right spot to feel their SETH rising and others will  feel HERU. Just logically looking at this question, and I will do so  maybe for the sake of the actionable result that people use their BRAIN  instead of their HEART as much; If white/pale people are not to be  included in Kmtyw Spirituality because they are corrupted and will  corrupt our Rituals, initiations etc. this would suggest that all the  Kmtyw Spiritual Systems that WHITE SKINNED people are NOT in, are  running without corruption, right? Meaning, based on what I've seen  repeated again and again on this thread and elsewhere, corruption didn't  exist in these systems before the whites arrived, correct? Then that  would mean that as soon as the whites got put out of most of the  colonized Kmtyw countries during the era of independence we should  have restored our continent back to its original Spiritual and Cultural  integrity. RIGHT? But we KNOW none of this was the case back then, nor  is it today. So why couldn't we restore ourselves, with only a minimal  amount of whites around and how is it that such a small group is still  dominating us around the world even though many of us across the  diaspora and especially home, have access to our spirituality and  cultural traditions? They did not mate with enough Kmtyws to turn  them white, so why are we still so Spiritually and Culturally weak as a  collective, many of whom were born into our Spiritual traditions. It is  because the White Man did not have to change us into his literal pale color  to make us reject, question, abandon, corrupt, compromise, discard,  sabotage and out right resist our own Spiritual Systems. He simply had  to change our MINDS. He did this by injecting a comparative element which comes out of his CULTURE.  It is this CULTURE and the descendents of it, who maintain it, that  corrupts the individual so thoroughly that the world of the Divine will  not come near them.

So to reiterate if we suppose skin darkness was the indication of one's  ability to be spiritually pure, then we should have recovered the  instant whites, for the most part, physically left us alone, because it  is their white skin that is corrupting. But clearly that logic is just  erroneous. If there is anything else that we can distinguish about them,  which sets them apart, it would be beyond the realm of physical traits  and would move into the realm of BEHAVIOR. Now we step  into the arena of things that can be learned, imposed, adopted etc. And  since every human being can learn, he can be taught, by way of EXPOSURE.  This is how a small group of White people can rule the world. They do  it by making us all white in our MINDS, with varying degrees of success  across a wide spectrum. This is also why I've said that the white man  does not have to infiltrate our Systems to corrupt them, there will  always be a number among the ranks who will do his job for him. Isn't  that plain to see across our Homeland and in the diaspora? I think we  call those people Knee-Grows... but a Knee-Grow is ultimately an  individual who is a traitor to his people, not in the sense of RACE and  skin color but in the sense of the VALUES that his people hold, honor  and live by. Our skin color is nothing to be loyal to because it doesn't  carry any other message. It is the VALUES/CODE of Behavior we declare  that makes a community safe and distinguishes the enemy, starting with  ONESELF. I am no safer with a person because they have black skin like  mine. He might even be a threat to me or I a threat to him, if we don't  hold ourselves to a common cultural standard, which is significant to  establishing identity. What do we think black on black crime is? It is  really opposing "white minded" black people projecting their hatred of  their true identity, onto one another. Successfully doing the job of the  "white man" for him. A traditional saying goes: "Nobody ever got killed  by the arrow he saw coming... it is the one that he didn't see that  killed him."

I urge others who don't already KNOW the answer to this discussion  question to sincerely think about this, if it is something that is  hindering your growth and I will continue to do the same.

Want to change the world... start by changing the SELF!

Ntr Dua!

Ib-Ra-Hima

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

What is the benefit or WISDOM in posing this question  to people who  mostly don't and won't KNOW the answer and it is clear  that the  questioner already has a point of view established about it?

Simple. The benefit is that from these I can determine whose views are 1) wise 2) consistent with what this site is about.

As it stands we have no solution  driven action coming out of this  discussion because it was started to  establish who the wise people are.

You may not be clear that I'm the administrator of this site. From determination of whose views are 1) wise 2) consistent with what this site is about, several solution driven actions come about. This is how moderators are selected. This is how people are invited to the Circle of Liberation. This is how collective projects offline are pursued. I don't want or need people who are confused and confuse themselves the more they talk (or type) to end up as moderators or in any other decision making position here. If they work their way in, their views that are inconsistent with our mission and vision will work them right back on out.

if one already KNOWS from evidence presented from a  most respectable  shrine, the answer to ones question, can it be an  HONEST question?

This is just plain stupid. If a math teacher asks 2+2=?, the teacher is getting the answer not because he or she doesn't know the answer or isn't expecting a particular answer from the smart students, but because he or she is doing something with the feedback received. This may include assigning grades, promoting to the next grade etc. Questions are asked for a variety of purposes. In the case of this site, I'm asking to know, for one, whether or not you or those who think like you should be here or will remain here. There are plenty of sites with more integrationist tendencies if that's what you're looking for. Now THAT's what I call "appreciable and purposeful action"!

Now to honesty, please tell me IN DOGON the proverb that says if you ask a question for a purpose that is not immediately discernible to a forum member, then you've asked a "dishonest" question. I'd love to hear how much "education of the Dogon" you've received and where. Based on your imaginary Dogon education if I asked "Is the post office this way?" I've asked a dishonest question because I already had an idea of which way it was. Now, I'm not calling you stupid per se, but the foolishness of this logic that you would have us believe our Dogon brothers and sisters hold in high esteem is just, well, stupid.

In all honesty, you're belaboring the issue of how the question is asked, why the question was asked, whether or not you knew ahead of time the reason why the question was asked, kwk because, to you, it has become clear that you've found yourself on the wrong side of the wisdom divide. Now you're like, "well if you're calling me unwise then you're dishonest." Infantile at best.

Nilikuonyesha nyota (mwezi) na uliangalia kidole tu. (Swahili)
 I pointed out to you the stars (the moon) and all you saw was the tip of my finger. (english)

From experience, those with wisdom have seen what whites have done every single place that they've infiltrated. From said experience I am of the view, this site is of the stance, and anyone who I, personally, would like to stay around this site is of the view that they should NOT be in Kmtyw spiritual systems. This means that they are not in the pool of those who should be up for consideration. Now what part of that means that ALL Black people are automatically good to go? You want to talk about flawed thinking...if any thinking for that matter. I've already mentioned differences between wise Kmtyws and foolish ones. I don't even particularly want terminally foolish people on this site, much less in the Spiritual Systems.
So let's make this as basic as possible:
From the pool of Kmtyw people only a subset are wise, good, moral, honest, kwk... white "people" are not in the pool of consideration. Why? The last few thounited snakesnd years. If you missed it, look for the cliff's notes.
white "people" not being good does not equal, therefore ALL Black people are good. It means that from within Black people is where you start your search for the good, wise, moral, honest, kwk. I don't have a problem with your binary logic per se, it's just your misapplication of it. But you're not alone, trust me. Every integrationist I've ever come across does the exact same thing. As a matter of fact all you have to do is say something that may be construed as going against white "people" and almost like a kneejerk reaction they'll say "well n****s/Black people/Kmtyws ain't s#!+ (neither)!" ((they may or may not leave out the 'neither' part))
Again, this is an incorrect stance to take and not what I'm advocating. None of the white "people" are good. Are you with me so far? Only a subset of Black people are good, but the threshold of Black people is where the sifting process begins. I hope you're still following along.

As a matter of fact, that's how this site is set up. No white "people" are allowed. Only a subset of Black people are welcome. For example, each week several Black people fill out their registration forms as "Human, american, british, brazilian, anything but Black/Kmtyw". Such people have their accounts deleted immediately. This keeps the amount of foolishness and distractions that run contrary to the mission and vision of the site to a minimum. But as you see, some get past the first hurdle long enough to distract us from our work. :hello:

[Ib-Ra-Hima]

I want to relate a story from the Dogon who have preserved initiatic tales that were part of the education of the Pharaohs and priest of KMT.
 
A French philosopher, Jean Jacque Rousseau, impressed the world for decades with his famous expression: "The Human being is born good, it his society that corrupts him." For too long, humanity has exposed its incapability of reasoning and the obscurantist nature of it's evolution in the fact that we have found a sort of intellectual and philosophical brilliance in that expression.
 
...As if we knew what "to be good" means. The question that , until today, is in the head of every being that is worried about the becoming of this world is, without a doubt, "Do we know how to be GOOD? What definition do we bring to the concept of goodness? Can we give to that concept a definition that is non-partisan?" I mean to be good at ALL frontiers; to be good without making victims; to be good without being a partner in crime.
 
The truth according to the philosophical shool of MTAM is that there is no human being that is born GOOD. There is no country of goodness. The individual struggle is the same everywhere. We ALL evolve toward absolute goodness. The individual feels the influences of forces that we can find sympathetic and those we can find negative. Even being born in the holy city will not protect us from these influences.
Without a model of Gods that we consider perfect and to reproduce (the 77 commandments), we must recognize that we have taken on a challenge that is practically impossible to win taking in consideration our human nature. It is clear that we will not be able to recognize the evil if it is not pointed out to us, and we will only notice the evil that inhabits us if there is in our environment an individual who is honest enough to point it out to while it is manifesting itself.
Our relationship with the good and evil of the world places us in a position of a consenting victim.
 
In the Gourmantche countries, we say that there is a monster in the human heart. Every time that monster manifest itself, even the devil loses his throne. The principle of life consists of the fact that each one of us should DOMESTICATE his MONSTER. The original cosmogony has presented to the world what we call HERU-SETH. Heru-Seth is presented as a God that is represented by Heru and Seth joined together as Siamese brothers. The two Gods represent the forces of destruction and life inhabiting the same body. Yes, Heru and Seth join together until the level of the neck. and then one can find two heads looking in opposite directions. The existence of a double headed Heru-Seth has opened the door to all the philosophical speculations of the modern time concerning the notion of harmony, the Chinese yin and yang, etc.
The story I'm going to tell expresses Heru-Seth as two forces that inhabit EVERY individual. Heru is favorable to life, resurrection, and the becoming of the world that expands, and Seth is unfavorable to life and is working actively for the becoming of the world that retracts. According to the MTAM education, a human being must work to reduce the manifestations of Seth because he always shows up to trouble our identification with the God-Child Heru.
 
During the invasion of the Nile Valley by the Romans, one was witnessing a shift that was difficult to understand. The world was good before; the farmer was farming, the weavers were weaving, the merchants were selling... the world was at peace. The people of the Nile Valley could not understand why a whole continent could become a land that every ambitious person would want to conquer. The worst was, without a doubt, the fact that the Romans and the other inhabitants of the territories of eureurasia were educated to simply hate people of color, their Gods, philosophy, etc, and at the same time, to loot their temples, pyramids, graineries, technology, etc. The barbarism of the invaders did not make sense. For the people of the South, when you hated somebody, you stay away from them, and you do not accept anything that comes from them. We are simply witnessing a world of hypocrisy. The streets of Kheraba were filled with these hypocrite soldiers that were, on one hand, calling themselves superior to the ones the colonized and, on the other hand, were stealing obelisks, gold, diamonds, even mummified bodies and papyri, etc, as "spoils of war". The peasants knew that these people came in because there were starving, and making war was their intelligent way of putting food on their tables.
 
It is said that one day a Roman soldier went to visit a temple. He found a priest sitting in front of the temple with his eyes closed, legs crossed and arms on his knees. The priest was visibly in deep meditation. Suddenly he was pulled out of his state by a rude and authoritarian voice of the soldier: "Hey, old man, I want you to teach me what you call Heru-Seth." ( My Note: this is a "WHITE" man who he is fully aware comes from the Romans who are invading and killing and all the rest) The priest stayed with no movement, as if he did not hear the soldier. He did not answer, but started to open his eyes gradually. The soldier could see a faint smile on the corner of the mouth of the priest. The soldier was visibly determined, impatient, and more and more agitated. "You want to know the secret of Heru-Seth?" the priest replied finally. "You that I find worse than an animal; you with your hands and feet covered with dust and blood, you with breath that smells like a dead rat, you with a sword rusted with neglect? You that everyone found ugly, you who is clothed by your mother... and you are asking me about Heru-Seth?"
 
After hearing all these word, the soldier entered into a anger with no equal. He pulled his sword and lifted it above his head. His face became red like a tomato. The veins on his neck were swollen. He emitted a bad curse as he was preparing himself to cut the head of the priest off, and while the sword was coming down towards the neck of the priest, the priest gently said, "This is the manifestation of Seth! Now you can see Seth in yourself."
 
In hearing these words, the soldier stopped his action. He was marveled by the intelligence of the priest. He was invaded by compassion and love for this gentle priest that has risked his own life just to teach him. His eyes filled with tears of gratitude. The priest now said, with a smile, "This is the manifestation of Heru. This is Heru."
 
Want to change the world... start by changing the SELF!

Ntr Dua,
 
Ib-Ra-Hima

[Okomfo Akosua]

@ Ib-ra-hima
 
 

My other points were addressed to others on this thread who seemed to  view melanin as some sort of holy grail for purity, when "WHITENESS" is  just a lesser degree of melanin concentration. My examples were just to  demonstrate that the politicized dogma being built around MELANIN is  totally unfounded. Degrees of Melanin is not a determinant factor in  measuring the extent or possibility for a human being to be corrupt, IT  IS CULTURE/VALUES.

First of all, I never said or insinuated that melanin is a holy grail for purity.  Nonetheless, if melanin, this brown/black pigment, or the lack of melanin has nothing to do with the possibility for a human to be corrupt or not, then explain what is driving whites through their mindset/culture to behave as they do?  

You argue that Seth is to blame but no other group of people although they can be influenced by Seth have caused such destruction and chaos on the level that whites have.  Why are they so focused and always have been focused on ERASING people of color, blacks specifically from the planet?  

What is it about black people in particular that make whites want to destroy them all?  

Why in the system of racism/white supremacy are black people the main target?

Nana Marimba ask similar questions in her book Yurugu on page 449.  Perhaps you can answer them.  She says,

"Why is it that eureurasiaans who are "white" (a small minority of the world), should exhibit this inordinate power drive that becomes the basis of their culture, which they seek to exercise over those who are not white, or stated positively, those who "have color" (the vase majority)?  Why is it that this culture created by eureurasiaan Cauceurasians appears to be singular among the world's cultures?  Why is eureurasiaan culture different in ways that all other cultures are the same?  It has a materialistic world-view, whereas other cultural world-views are more spiritualistic in nature.  It is individualistic, whereas other cultures have communalistic social structures."

and,

"We must simply ask the question head on:  can it be an accident that the only people who have built an entire culture based on the dominance of others are also the only ones who are Cauceurasian?  It doesn't matter if it is argued that some few cauceurasians do not participate in this system of world-wide dominance.  The generalized question begs to be asked."

If you think that their lack of melanin has absolutely nothing to do with it....fine!  If you believe they are simply born psychopaths or that there is a difference in their intellect or they are just acting out of fear or whatever...fine!   The fact is that they have and continue to engage in a systematic way of destroying the lives of black/Kmtyw people across the globe.  This is enough for any sane person to recognize them as a threat. They will always work in a way that threatens the existence of Black/Kmtyw people, other people of color, and the Earth.  We are essentially at war and they are enemy #1.    

Just by the fact that my brother Okyeame has to go through this site  setting traps to sift out infiltrators to the site's vision, suggests  that there is no where left to hide. We can't kill them all and we can't  ignore them all because their system is tenacious just like SETH. The  only way to contain the beast is to tame it, otherwise we will always be  in danger of our survival being threatened by it, hunting us down and  picking us off an individual, community, a generation at a time. Its  baffling to me that all our strategist and high level thinkers are not  seeing this

You say the only way to contain a beast is to tame it.  LOL.  Come on!  You are not a warrior by any means.  You don't want to tame or even contain a beast.  You want to kill so that it never has a chance to kill you!  A beast by nature will always be on the hunt and you will always be its prey.    

There is much trauma, confusion and discord amongst us and we understand the importance of our need to heal and to restore our greatness and pride as Kmtyws.  The process of re-Kmtywizing requires us to claim the spiritual traditions, in an un-adulterated form and use them to aid us in the healing process.  We know that our enemy does not want us to do this.  Therefore, it would be outright foolish to allow them to participate in the rituals and sacred ceremonies that are designed to heal, uplift and strengthen us.  As stated numerous times in this thread, whites, have no place and serve no purpose in Kmtyw spiritual systems!!!

"Now that we have broken the power of their ideology, we must leave them and direct our energies toward the recreation of cultural alternatives informed by ancestral visions of a future that celebrates our Kmtywess and encourages the best of the human spirit.  Each of the cultures historically victimized by eureurasia must reclaim its own image.  As for those of us who are Kmtyw, our salvation (redemption) lies in our ancientness and connectedness; not in a romanticized glorification of the past, but in a return to the center in which all contradictions are resolved and from which the spiral of development can continue with clarity.  From the center, ikons can be retrieved in our image that will allow us to tap the energy of the collective conscious will of our people." - Nana Marimba Ani from Yurugu

[Ib-Ra-Hima]

@Okomfo11 et al: My brother Okomfo, I like that you have apparently been faced with same challenges that most of us have regarding the question of "whites", and that you seem to have the same questions that Nana Marimba has delineated in her book. I hope that your questions are honest ones in that you have not already taken a position on the topic but are willing to pursue and concede to the TRUTH wherever it might lead. I'm not so sure that this is your objective in posing those questions, but I could be totally wrong as I have been about so many things in my life.
 
I do not want to become favorable ground for Seth. I do not want to cause anger or hot tempers. Nor do I want to cause misunderstandings. I myself struggled with the notion of the white people being allowed into the Kmtyw Spiritual Systems. I mean I really struggled. Because all of the books and scholars of the Diaspora you are quoting, I have studied thoroughly and pondered deeply, in my attempts, like so many of us, to understand the siege we are and have been under by what I was convinced were a people that were the seed race of another species entirely, maybe even reptilians. I just could not believe their viciousness and the extent of their destructiveness.
 
The times I've been to KMT, I saw what they've done and continue to do to our monuments, lands and people, that they have relegated to serfdom in the society and obscurity in the southland. I know the story is the same across the continent and am aware of all they have done across the globe to foment the disintegration of functioning villages, communities and nations everywhere they've managed to set their cloven hooves, for the sake of profits, imperialism and colonization.
 
So given that awareness why have I had to re-examine the way I look at this? In the Spirit of genuinely seeking the TRUTH and accepting it where ever it may lead, no matter how much it grits against my attachments to the ideas and conclusions I had come to about the question I was seeking anwers to, it came down to my initiation into MTAM, the Kemetic science of earth energies, as preserved by the Dogon High Priesthood and the ancient history of Humanity they still hold. What I have learned in brief is this: This planet and the human beings on it are up against challenges that are beyond our modern understanding and even this world. The so called "whites" or Indo-eureurasiaans as a group, have been singled out to be the agents of propagation for this other worldy agenda. The temples of Waset/Thebes, Abtu/Abydos and Heptakah/Memphis, have been aware of this agenda and the threat that has invaded our planet for millennia, and recognized the indo-eureurasiaans as the primary handmaidens of an antagonistic group. This group as infected this planet with a mechanism of control which is transmitted by a germ that is caught like a virus, that is to say, unbeknownst to the victim and is not limited to Indo-eureurasiaans exclusively, but incites destructive and self-destructive behaviors and spreads undetected throughout the human species. They are so well know in ancient Kemet that they were also given the name Nassara, meaning hated by RA and were responsible for forcing the Pharaoh Inus into forming the first army ever built for the defense against other human beings. Since then the qualitative development of humanity has been compromised as a result of this new cycle. Before the year 75 BC, inhabitants of this planet were not classified in terms of color. It was clear that skin colors were only diverse levels of concentration of what we now call melanin.
 
So all that is to say simply, there is now a mindset that is common to the Indo eureurasiaan culture, turned "White" after they found that the Kemetic religion and regions, the ones all humans emulated, considered the color white to represent the absence of color, purity, innocence, etc. and these Romans decided to be called "white". Yet their pale skin, in and of itself, is not the issue. In essence they were pillaging before they even thought of themselves as "white"! And long before anyone else called them "white" from the "west" because the rest of the world saw it as a big joke. The earth in ancient times was divided into two regions the upper lands and the lower lands (these were not just in the Nile valley but included the entire northern and southern hemispheres of the planet), which the Pharaohs ruled. Humanity in that time was divided into two groups that were distinguishable by their moral qualities, one that occupied the holy city located in the territory called Misra or what is called Kmt today and composed communities responsible for perpetuating human genius, and the Pharaoh who was concerned with the harmony and happiness of humanity and the Gods. The other group was composed of the "Indo-eureurasiaans" who through their invasions came to occupy a growing part of the eureurasiaan continent. So it was their culture and moral qualities that, more than anything else, identified them as a threat. Just like any stereotype, back then, you could probably profile them based on their pale skin and the region they hale from and assume the worse of every individual you came across, but then would that be GOOD, JUST or even correct? We see how racial profiling works on us even today! They often assume we are all thieving, killing, raping, drug dealing criminals off top. Yes we can go into all the rationalizations and justifications for why we should be able to condemn them all because of their general history. But just calling a cat a cat, the act is exactly the same even if the intention is different. This is why it is our actions that count not our intentions. Because ask any racist white person why he is a racist and he'll have any number of justifications for why, in his mind, he is right for his racist actions. This brings to mind the saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
 
BTW: You can't kill this particular beast if he is really a part of you. You can contain it by taming it and yes you must remain vigilant in controlling it because if you can actually kill the devil what does that make you?
 
The movie Fallen with Denzel has a fairly close example of the way this thing works... Check it out and let me know your thoughts.
 
Want to change the world... start by changing the Self!
 
Ib-Ra-Hima

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Ib-Ra-Hima, if you're honestly seeking truth, I'd advise you to leave The Earth Center alone. :hello::peace:

[Ib-Ra-Hima]

I understand Okyeame. I think a good thread to start would be about corruption in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems. Because in my almost 40yrs of searching being raised Muslim in Trini and studying under Kmtyw Healers from Ghana who were Muslim missionaries there, dealing with not so friendly spirits while in their apprenticeship and seeing Shango Baptist, Obeia and Orisha ceremonies. Then coming to the US, I later saw, heard and read about more of the Kemetic, Vodun/Yuroba, Akan, Condomble etc. branches of the Diasporic and original Systems. Yet ALL of them, without fail, have been plagued by one thing among others: Organizational and Community leader and member based, corruptions. When I say I've heard and seen all types of craziness, I mean I'm talking about some wild stuff. I'm sure many people on this site have a horror story. I've heard it all in my search. I went on a tour to KMT with someone, "Oh don't mess with them, they only about money." I decided to check out Akan, "Oh the Babolawo's don't handle marriage conflicts justly, if at all, and always favor the man or don't admonish them." I turned to Yoruba, since where I live it's real big, turns out there are sisters using Juju on one another over men and other petty disputes with priestesses involved. And on and on and on... It's like a brother couldn't go anywhere without someone saying, "Man... don't go over there... and don't mess with them!" So where can a black man go with his family, short of back to an untouched village somewhere deep in the bush, when it seems like everybody has something negative to say about everybody else? Maybe this is where the saying comes from, that, "there can be no island of peace in an ocean full of tears."

This is why I think this would be a good discussion topic. To come up with some solutions or to give some perspective on the way to approach coming home to our Spiritual Systems. Do we come home first for the knowledge to improve our lives, commune with our ancestors and the Divine to better our personal and spiritual destiny? Because this is the way I have had to go so far. I went with the knowledge and saw how it affected my life and spirituality. I have found these improvements to be astonishing!

Or do we approach it looking for a functioning community, first, one without the many hangups and flaws we find in, what appears to be, all OUR institutions and organizations at this time. This has been the area that continues to be a challenge for me and my family because they just don't seem to exist or I'm looking at them improperly. For the newcomers, following the latter choice might mean just staying in the church or masjid, where at least they are familiar with the corruption they are dealing with. I don't know, but maybe on another thread if someone sees it fit to introduce it and if that type of discussion aligns with this site's vision.

(Please please please don't take this as disrespect, I just don't know any other way to put it.)

Want to change the world... start by changing the Self!

Duahoo,

Ib-Ra-Hima

[XWilliamX]

I read a post on tribe dot net, a devotee to Orisa tribe, by a supposed Kmtyw Priestess of Benin, who was born here in the states, that the white folk that attempt to enter the system must at first appease the spirits of the ancestors, those that were harmed or affected by euro tyranny, spiritual reparations.  
I can only speculate from a limited view, because I have no real experience in the Kmtyw Spiritual Systems, only things I have read.  But it looks like to me it is more than just get initiated and receive the blessing of the spirits and gods.  The guidance of the ancestors is essential and your own personal guide.  Can the non-Kmtyw people that attempt to initiate even receive these assets, seeing how they aren't descendants of these spirits and such?  Seems to me they'd me missing a huge part of the pie if that were the case.  Which would be dangerous, using powers they don't really understand and unchecked at that.  Hmm, maybe this is how we got into this situation in the first place!
My answer is no, until we are able to consolidate our power, culture, and minds across the globe. We cannot let the possibility of the havoc foreign people can have on our already beaten and strained culture.  If they were able to infiltrate and destroy when we were powerful, we may never get up and running again if they exist in it when we are down and out.

[Mkwavinyika]

I'm of the view Black Magic, Black Power. I don't think they belong anywhere near our indigenous systems our historical relations with them alone should be enough to cement that position. Why would we share any intelligence with our oppressors that defeats any purpose of getting Kmt free and keeping it that way. The role of control is the only role whites know, no matter what pretext they come under the role of white command through domination will always be at the forefront of their motives. In unapologetic tone, to willingly share any form of indigenous Kmtyw knowledge that can be used to advance/liberate Kmtyw peoples with a foreign people is akin to treason in many ways!

[pyvsi]

GoddessofLight;25740 wrote:  We get the Orisa or the Obasom from our bloodlines. You cannot get it otherwise. The gods come through our ancestral lineage. If one is not decendent from that lineage...they will never truly possess the gods or their power.


"The truth no matter how small and weak it looks in the beginning, always prevails in the end."--Odu Ifa

Thank you for this! I suspected as much.