The Deep Thought of Baba Jedi Shemsu Jehewty (Dr. Jacob Carruthers)-gctid24982

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Heru Djet;206882 wrote: As far as I know that is a "modern" united snakesge, just like Htp as "peace" is "modern". While this isn't totally problematic, we need to be mindful of our Cultural moorings. Seeking to express Eureurasian realities in Kmtyw languages, even for expediency's sake, limits our progression.

I used the quotation marks because modernity is weighted with epistemological, ontological, and eschatological baggage from eureurasia (just like all of those terms that I just used).

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Is Dr Amen clear on these being modern calques? I've heard her say we should infuse our own style into Mdw Ntr which I took to mean justification (or at least foreshadowing of) creative license. Either way, I think it should be made explicit as to what's going on here. If there's precedent, let us know the source(s). If there isn't make it plain.

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[Heru Djet]

Obadele Kambon;206883 wrote: What do you think being mindful would entail? I'm familiar with Father Divine's "modern" popularization of the word peace as a greeting.

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Asante kwa swali. My answer is related to something that we've discussed before, the tendency of people to want to accept Eureurasian reality as reality, and thus to seek to render Eureurasian concepts in Kmtyw languages, withouout asking the necessary (and difficult) question of how Kmtyws saw reality. Accepting this means starting from the standpoint that absolute equivalencies between cultures are not absolute.

I remember asking Dr. Jacob Carruthers how to express "controlled chaos" in mdw nTr. He told me that such an idea really didn't exist in kmt. Whereas some translate isft as chaos, it is more appropriately related to wrong-doing and falsehood. Moreover, in the Kemetic worldview, one does not seek to "control" chaos. One seeks to maintain and restore mAat, not coexisting with chaos. This was quite edifying, though it was a few years before I fully absorbed the meaning of this.

My point is that being mindful or aware of this means that we recognize when we are expressing Eureurasian concepts. For instance, what do eureurasiaans mean when they said "peace"? What did their Roman forbears mean when they said "pax"? Did they mean order and tranquility? Did they mean what the kmtyw meant when they said mAat? Or did they refer to the suppression of resistance to their hegemony? Thus rather than rehabilitating Eureurasian concepts, we should rely on those from our culture. They would probably offer much loftier and powerful concepts.

[Heru Djet]

Obadele Kambon;206884 wrote: Is Dr Amen clear on these being modern calques? I've heard her say we should infuse our own style into Mdw Ntr which I took to mean justification (or at least foreshadowing of) creative license. Either way, I think it should be made explicit as to what's going on here. If there's precedent, let us know the source(s). If there isn't make it plain.

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I am unaware if anyone has raised these issues. This is why, to your earlier point, we need to ground ourselves in our indigenous languages as a basis for mdw nTr's revival.

[Heru Djet]

I wanted to clarify something that I stated earlier. The use of Htp as a greeting meaning "peace" seems somewhat complicated given the vastly divergent worldviews of kmt and eureurasia. Both Dr. Amen and Faulkner seem to agree that Htp meant satisfaction. She also emphasizes this in her lectures. The idea of satisfaction seems to be the basis of this conception of "peace", and that such a term likely did not have a compaAmwle meaning in kmt as in eureurasia. For eureurasiaans "peace" is the absence of bloodletting or the absence of resistance to their expressions of power. But the presence of fulfillment as the Kemetic term expresses is qualitatively distinct from this.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Heru Djet;206890 wrote: I wanted to clarify something that I stated earlier. The use of Htp as a greeting meaning "peace" seems somewhat complicated given the vastly divergent worldviews of kmt and eureurasia. Both Dr. Amen and Faulkner seem to agree that Htp meant satisfaction. She also emphasizes this in her lectures. The idea of satisfaction seems to be the basis of this conception of "peace", and that such a term likely did not have a compaAmwle meaning in kmt as in eureurasia. For eureurasiaans "peace" is the absence of bloodletting or the absence of resistance to their expressions of power. But the presence of fulfillment as the Kemetic term expresses is qualitatively distinct from this.

Dr. Carruthers represented an important tradition in which equivalencias are not made between Kmtyw Concepts and eureurasian ones. It's a very important position to take and one that I wish more people would take seriously. "Kmtyw Champions must break the chain that links Kmtyw ideas to eureurasiaan ones and listen to the voice of the ancestors without eureurasiaan interpreters." This quote rings as true today as when he first said it.

Heru Djet;206887 wrote: I am unaware if anyone has raised these issues. This is why, to your earlier point, we need to ground ourselves in our indigenous languages as a basis for mdw nTr's revival.

I agree wholeheartedly. In Ayi Kwei Armah's The Resolutionaries, he talks about a group that comes together to create a new language based on Mdw nTr, however the members of the group don't seem to have very much foundation in any Kmtyw languages and are rather steeped in eureurasian ones. Thus, it seems that to take up their created language the masses of Kmtyw people would be subjected to the decisions of the most colonized who know little to nothing about Kmt but who would be making the decisions on what the future of Kmt's language would be.

Heru Djet;206886 wrote: Asante kwa swali. My answer is related to something that we've discussed before, the tendency of people to want to accept Eureurasian reality as reality, and thus to seek to render Eureurasian concepts in Kmtyw languages, withouout asking the necessary (and difficult) question of how Kmtyws saw reality. Accepting this means starting from the standpoint that absolute equivalencies between cultures are not absolute.

I remember asking Dr. Jacob Carruthers how to express "controlled chaos" in mdw nTr. He told me that such an idea really didn't exist in kmt. Whereas some translate isft as chaos, it is more appropriately related to wrong-doing and falsehood. Moreover, in the Kemetic worldview, one does not seek to "control" chaos. One seeks to maintain and restore mAat, not coexisting with chaos. This was quite edifying, though it was a few years before I fully absorbed the meaning of this.

My point is that being mindful or aware of this means that we recognize when we are expressing Eureurasian concepts. For instance, what do eureurasiaans mean when they said "peace"? What did their Roman forbears mean when they said "pax"? Did they mean order and tranquility? Did they mean what the kmtyw meant when they said mAat? Or did they refer to the suppression of resistance to their hegemony? Thus rather than rehabilitating Eureurasian concepts, we should rely on those from our culture. They would probably offer much loftier and powerful concepts.

As I have observed and often say, the equal sign will kill our people in the sense of our people's concepts about the world. There are many that people just take for granted such as a concept of God, mind, ego, and others as though any of them actually exist or ever existed. All of these carry conceptual baggage so that when we translate from Kmtyw languages into them that baggage comes right along. This morning, my daughter and I were reading smi n sxty pn and she read the Akan version and I read the Wolof version (I'm using it to teach her Wolof). There is no English in our activity whatsoever. It is very edifying to go from one Kmtyw language to another Kmtyw language without a stopover anywhere in eureurasia.

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[Agya Yaw]

Heru Djet;206887 wrote: I am unaware if anyone has raised these issues. This is why, to your earlier point, we need to ground ourselves in our indigenous languages as a basis for mdw nTr's revival.

I have had the same thoughts for many years as it pertains to mdw nTr. (Which is where my hesitancy to learn mdw nTr first comes from mostly). And have advocated learning another Kmtyw language first before deep diving into mdw nTr. Cultural context is vital in learning and understanding what is said and its interpretation in responding.

Especially since I see many different interpretations of mdw nTr from its practitioners. It's hard to know who to trust.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Jacob  H.  Carruthers  and  the KmtywCentered  Discourse  on  Knowledge, Worldview, and Power by Kamau  Rashid,  Ph.D. Department  of  Educational  Foundations  and  Inquiry National-Louis University

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                            Attached files  54-JacobH.pdf (137.3 KB)

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Agya Yaw;206962 wrote: I have had the same thoughts for many years as it pertains to mdw nTr. (Which is where my hesitancy to learn mdw nTr first comes from mostly). And have advocated learning another Kmtyw language first before deep diving into mdw nTr. Cultural context is vital in learning and understanding what is said and its interpretation in responding.

Especially since I see many different interpretations of mdw nTr from its practitioners. It's hard to know who to trust.

I would also advocate for a thorough grounding in Kmtyw Languages. If not, you'll view mdw nTr through blue eyes.
The folks who learned with Obenga are the best I've come across. He really understands the language deeply. I can't vouch for others.

Note that there are points that scholars disagree on. I was just explaining a point on HAt-sp vs rnpt-sp to a member of the wHm mswt study group. You have different scholars who have different transliterations of the same glyphs. We'll discuss this point this week.

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[Agya Yaw]

Obadele Kambon;207847 wrote: I would also advocate for a thorough grounding in Kmtyw Languages. If not, you'll view mdw nTr through blue eyes.
The folks who learned with Obenga are the best I've come across. He really understands the language deeply. I can't vouch for others.

Note that there are points that scholars disagree on. I was just explaining a point on HAt-sp vs rnpt-sp to a member of the wHm mswt study group. You have different scholars who have different transliterations of the same glyphs. We'll discuss this point this week.

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As much as I have gone back and forth on this over the years, I have decided to let all you PhD's figure this whole Mdu Ntr thing out more thoroughly before I dive in. Which means I will be an ancestor and will never dive in since I feel this will take a very long time to figure out. I need to sort out Twi first anyway then move on to Kiswahili and/or Yoruba.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

This means 77-year-old Ayi Kwei Armah wouldn't be happy. He was telling 73-years-young Chinweizu that he (Chinweizu) should be learning Mdw Ntr since it's not too late for him to get serious with his studies.

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[Agya Yaw]

Obadele Kambon;207860 wrote: This means 77-year-old Ayi Kwei Armah wouldn't be happy. He was telling 73-years-young Chinweizu that he (Chinweizu) should be learning Mdw Ntr since it's not too late for him to get serious with his studies.

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I bet those two elders have steep knowledge in at least one Kmtyw language already. I know Armah has multiple. That makes a difference related to what we are discussing.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

Well, when they met they spoke English, which is also related to what we're discussing.

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[Heru Djet]

Agya Yaw;207849 wrote: As much as I have gone back and forth on this over the years, I have decided to let all you PhD's figure this whole Mdu Ntr thing out more thoroughly before I dive in. Which means I will be an ancestor and will never dive in since I feel this will take a very long time to figure out. I need to sort out Twi first anyway then move on to Kiswahili and/or Yoruba.

I think that Obenga's and Diop's methodology might be instructive of how mdw nTr's revitalization can be informed via a rich understanding of other Kmtyw languages. So your studies of Twi or Kiswahili do not necessarily exclude martialing this knowledge in service of your studies of the language of kmt.

[Agya Yaw]

Heru Djet;208009 wrote: I think that Obenga's and Diop's methodology might be instructive of how mdw nTr's revitalization can be informed via a rich understanding of other Kmtyw languages. So your studies of Twi or Kiswahili do not necessarily exclude martialing this knowledge in service of your studies of the language of kmt.

I made this point somewhere on this site before I believe. Mdu Ntr is like Calculus and all other Kmtyw languages are like Algebra, Geometry and Trigonometry. You have to know the latter three in order to deal with the former. I have felt in our zeal to reclaim our past we are ignoring necessary steps to build a crystal clear vision of what it was and what we can make of it, in some cases.

I respect the work of Obenga and Diop because I know they did not skip steps.

[Heru Djet]

To put it in a more exalted fashion, they had a formula which appears in the tombs which reads: When you are fully developed, when you have achieved your full humanity, you are filled with three essences.
 
The first is Sia, exceptional comprehension—that is you see clearly, you understand, you perceive and comprehend clearly. The second is Hu—authoritative utterance; you speak articulately and thus, your speech has the force of a command and everything complies because the command is based on Maat (truth). Finally, you have Heka—the follow through. More properly it is extraordinary power. According to the Egyptologists Heka is magic. More properly it is extraordinary power which results from a clear mind and an articulate tongue; then you have extraordinary power to accomplish those things you desire in a very efficient manner.
-Jacob H. Carruthers, “Speaking about Kemetic Theology” in Intellectual Warfare