What is the role of whites in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems-gctid25728

[GoddessofLight]

Again, you are expecting the gods to think like human beings, and that they do not do....My suggestions is for your to go to the place of your choice, and pose your questions to the Obosum or Orisa, or Lwa yourself, and see what answer and counsel they give you. Then you know for yourself, you have had your own experience, and there will be no need to debate here in a vacuum, only the gods can answer for themselves and we can only speak from our own experience...just remember, the gods do not think like people do, their vision is long and far....

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote: Again, you are expecting the gods to think like human beings, and that they do not do....My suggestions is for your to go to the place of your choice, and pose your questions to the Obosum or Orisa, or Lwa yourself, and see what answer and counsel they give you. Then you know for yourself, you have had your own experience, and there will be no need to debate here in a vacuum, only the gods can answer for themselves and we can only speak from our own experience...just remember, the gods do not think like people do, their vision is long and far....

No mam, I'm not expecting the "gods" to think like human beings. I'm expecting the "gods" to act within the parameters of divine law and order. I'm expecting the "gods" to not support any system of injustice against Kmtyw people or the planet. The exploitation is not a matter of my mind. It is FACTUAL that white people practice, benefit from and support the system of racism white supremacy!

Also, I've already stated that apparently going directly to them is what I will have to do because I cannot rely on books written by white people or individuals such as yourself who think that Kmtyw people thinking about racism white supremacy is more of a problem than racism white supremacy itself to tell me anything about the Abosom or Kmtyw spirituality.

[GoddessofLight]

No, I never said that, and if that is what you inferred from my statements, you are mistaken. I hope you will share your findings with us when you come back...

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote: No, I never said that, and if that is what you inferred from my statements, you are mistaken. I hope you will share your findings with us when you come back...

You're correct.

Your statement was:

"I honestly believe that we pay far too much attention to white people and what they are doing or not doing and thereby give them way too much power over us....the more you speak on something the more power you give it."

There are two ways to interpret such a statement. You are either saying:

1. We pay too much worthless attention to white people and what they are doing and not doing and it prevents us from moving forward with ideas and plans of our own to end our oppression at their hands. This worthless activity perpetuates their reign. Therefore, we need to pay worthwhile and constructive attention to white people, what they are doing and not doing so as to be able to develop and implement an effective counter-racist culture among our own that will defeat the system of racism white supremacy.

or

2. Stop talking about white people and racism white supremacy because it makes me uncomfortable or because it's not that big of a deal.

Considering the context, that being that you don't actually recognize the significance of the idea of helping white people who benefit from and support the system of racism white supremacy, interpretation #2 would be more consistent given the continuing characterization of our plight as something unsubstantiated such as thoughts or political biases.

Thinking even further on this it occurred to me. That book by Rattray was published in 1924. What was going on in Ghana at that time? Our people there had recently lost a war to the British and were now completely under their subjugation. Our great ancestress, Yaa Asentewaa, who had fought against the whites for our people, died in 1921 in exile by the whites, 3 years prior to the publishing of this book. Rattray is afforded his opportunity to come in and do this work directly due to the practice of racism white supremacy. Yet somehow, these are merely my thoughts. It isn't reality. And I am to believe that the Abosom are helping white people under such circumstances. This is just?

Maybe it's my youthful arrogance.

[GoddessofLight]

Number 1...I have no idea how old you are, so I cannot make comments on youthful arrongance...nor would I any way...every viewpoint and philosophy changes as we get more experience so such comments would not be fair...

I can say unequovically that you have not had much experience with the gods on the continent and really do not understand them. I hope you get to go soon and add to our discussion here...as long as you have not had the experience we are again....debating in a vacuum. Go and pose your questions and concerns and you will be amazed at their wisdom and their far reaching vision.

I will quote our ancestors on this..."The worship of the gods is not easy..."

Your passion and conviction are commendable at any age....most of us are so worn out and beat down we have nothing left...

[pain]

GoddessofLight wrote: Number 1...I have no idea how old you are, so I cannot make comments on youthful arrongance...nor would I any way...every viewpoint and philosophy changes as we get more experience so such comments would not be fair...

I can say unequovically that you have not had much experience with the gods on the continent and really do not understand them. I hope you get to go soon and add to our discussion here...as long as you have not had the experience we are again....debating in a vacuum. Go and pose your questions and concerns and you will be amazed at their wisdom and their far reaching vision.

I will quote our ancestors on this..."The worship of the gods is not easy..."

Your passion and conviction are commendable at any age....most of us are so worn out and beat down we have nothing left...

It is not news that I don't have much experience with them. That's why I'm always asking questions of people who have such as Obadele and others. But once again, while my questions are a "sign" that I haven't had much experience with the Abosom my recognition of the reality of the unjust state of our situation as a people is not. My recognition of the different roles that white people play in that unjust state is not a "sign" of my inexperience with the Abosom. There's no way anyone is going to convince me that helping white people who benefit from and support our oppression is just or that there is no harm in it.

[Ɔbenfo Ọbádélé]

I hope everyone chose "To confuse, confound and mess up to get Kmtyws to argue with each other." in addition to any other choices.

/me

[Chief_Kolade]

Is there any where on this planet that Cauceurasian have not had a hand in it   ? Ifa' doesn't shut the doors to anyone, abi? But for some race of people (whites), it  is time for Kmtyws (Nigerians) to stop initiating these Oyimbos into our culture   . Now, I love my brothers and sistas over there but enough is enough!

I know of one  well-known Priest in Dahomey that is totally against  initiating them completely, and that is the way it should be! You can look but don't touch-o! 

Has anyone heard of Willy Lynch? Well, type his name in the engine search box and you will see why we must have our own. We are our own worst enemy.  The movie Sankofa spells it all out, abi?  So, my answer to you is, where do you really stand?

Chief Kolade

[hrw sbkra]

...
it is an absolutely necessary component of our traditional spiritual systems to honor, respect, communicate with, learn from, and keep healthy our ancestors.
so, in order for a white person to truthfully and fully follow an Kmtyw spiritual path, they most fully acknowledge their ancestors, and all that they have done, and all that that entails....consequently, this is the reason why they are usually denied by the influential orisa and eguun of our spiritual systems. in fact, this is a major reason why white folk are the force of desruction and the face of evil...
 
we must all remember that there is no such thing as race. so whenever we speak about 'white people' we are actually talking about our extended human family. disregarding this fact as upward and truth-loving black folk means that we are just as bad as those wicked, truth-denying white folk. we are all one human family, just as the grizzly bear is family to the polar bear. we all know that all of humanity share a common genealogical heritage, originating from the same source. as common biological beings, exhibiting the Kmtyw of trait of survival through adaptation and improvisation, the various nations of the world have come to exist; just like your children's children take on characteristics distinct from your cousin's children's children...because all of the worlds peoples come from the same genealogical root, and because 'culture' as a complete system (meta-system) is the way through which a people live, maintain and sustain life, it is necessarily true that all of the various cultures of the world originate from the same cultural root.
with this being acknowledged, we must then acknowledge that the major differences, the most important distinctions between the various world peoples lie within the realm of culture, as a real and calculable record of people's existence--not the false construct of 'race', which has no scientific basis, no calculable record, as it is always socially and politically constructed. many of us know the works of our scholars, and have recently been exposed to the travels and works of Runoko Rashidi; at the center of all of the various world peoples' cultures, there is always the consistent paradigm of Black Culture at its center. the olmecs, the black buddhas, the black madonnas; these are perfect examples of the continuity of the Black Cultural Tradition, as these distinct peoples (americans, eurasians, eureurasiaans) are often seen as racially different and totally separate from Kmtyws.
 
just as we can follow the distinct evolutions of hiphop, (black)rock, r&b, bebop, hard bop, ragtime, etc., etc., back through the various traditions to the common root of blues/sprituals, we can do likewise with the various evolutions of human culture (as global black culture) back to its common root. hiphop and bebop, for example, are often taken as extreme opposites; however, recognizing and internalizing the root, the truly aware person cannot deny the commonalities within, and can trace through them the various points of departure/difference, identifying each according to geography, time, major proponents and influences, and all of the factors that have contributed to the evolution of distinction between them. in order to see the truth of present human existence, we must do this with human cultures, tracing the evolution of various nations' cultures to the root, taking note of the degrees to which all of the factors of life and living, geographic location/migration and social evolution (etc., etc.) have affected the particular nature of their departure from the root. Miles Davis does not sound like Louis Armstrong for a very specific reason, although upon tradition, Miles Davis would not have a sound at all if Louis Armstrong did not have sound before him....
..eureurasiaan culture exists only because Black Culture has existed. the proto-eureurasiaan carried Black Culture with them in their migrations to the barren land. however, because of their particular experiences with that land, and its weather or altered relationship with the sun and natural elements, the evolution (adaptation/improvisation/innovation) of theri carried black culture began to take on a particular form relative to these conditions never before experienced. characteristic to the environment and distance/inaccessability to the root land/culture, the proto-eureurasiaan culture began to take a form that is characteristicly isolated and alienated. distance from the land of their origins, and experiencing harships unresolved by their more immediate ancestors, the proto-eureurasiaan developed a strained relationship with the ancestor realm. our ancestors, however, recognized a need for their spiritual correction, and educated certain greeks and others in the ways of our (all of our) ancestors; yet, because of the breakdown of the ancestral-elder respect, the proto-eureurasiaan failed to give honor, and individuals laid claim to ancient knowledge and traditions. i say 'proto-eureurasiaans' because there was no identifiable eureurasiaan identity until after the fall of rome, and the eureurasiaan tribes experienced the 'dark ages', where their various cultures were forcibly consolidated into a more unified form (much like the evolution of Kmtyw american culture through the middle passage). however, due to the extremities and duration of this period, the resultant eureurasiaan culture evolved to be distinctly brutal, individualistic, isolationist, essentially denying the ancestors and black origins--for these ancestors and origins were seen as the cause for their sufferings. the development of eureurasiaan culture, through the crunited snakesdes, can be seen through the evolution of "alchemy", and its evolution to "modern science"....the final point of departure of eureurasiaan culture from black culture is the 'dark ages', and its evolution to the present can be seen through the tradition of alchemy as it has become modern science. with the strained and denied relationship with the ancestors and sprit realm, eureurasiaan culture became heavily invested in the physical aspect of reality, which the most superficial aspects of the alchemical tradition (extending back to djehuti) satisfy by providing methods of interacting within this physical reality. with the physical taking precedence in the evolving eureurasiaan cosmology, the alchemical tradition ('science') lies at the center of their unified culture, including the cultural aspect of spirituality/religion.
 
the differences between white folk and black folk exist within the realm of culture. as such, no white person or black person are 'righteous' or 'evil' unless the culture that supports their existence, that culture whose existence their lives support, are 'rightesous' or 'evil'. this is part of the reason why so many Kmtyw americans dont progress within our traditional spritual systems--we have too much anger and frustration with the proponents of euromerican culture (both white and black people) to acknowledge that they have no true power over us as spiritual beings. we too often enter our traditional systems as reactionaries, often as a way of resisting oppressive culture. we often take on the ways of our oppressors after re-converting to our spiritual systems, and as a result experience strained relationships with our family members, or began speaking about our relatives and elders in derogatory terms, looking down on black christians and muslims, rather than loving them more as a result of our awakening to truly balanced spiritual paths; ultimately, Kmtyw spiritual systems is love, love is the center of it all, as love was what formed us as individuals and as nations, love was what created the earth and other celestial beings in the cosmos.
 
we must be careful when we dismiss other humans, as individuals. we must seek to understand the evolutions of cultures. we must understand that individuals are created through their respective cultural traditions. as such, we should be careful to dismiss 'white people' or 'non-Kmtyws' wholesale, for this is a result of our own eureurasiaan indoctrination...yet, we must likewise acknowledge that cultural systems are formed by and maintained by individuals and groups of individuals. as such, we must focus our efforts at the systemic level, while understanding that the system is propogated by groups of individuals...
...this is what the orisa mean by saying that (almost) any individual can be healed through our traditions, but none of them may take true positions of leadership and influence. the cultural traditions of the euromericans' most direct ancestors developed in such a way that can classify them as the 'tradition of destruction'; and in taking on traditional Kmtyw spiritual forms, the euromerican is systemically and systematically unable to achieve balance both with their ancestors and with the traditional lineage of Kmtyw spritiual systems--our spiritual systems have always existed, from root to now, within the 'culture of creation', whereas theirs begain at this root but evolved in an opposite direction.
 
i feel the most important thing we must do is to reorient ourselves within space and time, existence. our sense of space has literally been flipped upside down (south is 'up'). our sense of time has been artificially constructed, as the earth does not have a single speed and rotational path, and therfore can not be segmented by euromerican clocks and estimates; euromerican understandings of number, general calculation, cosmic positioning and astrological/astronimical interpretation, are all inaccurate at best, and completely wrong at worst--either way, totally misguided and misused. inspite of what they've told us, we have maintained cultural continuity since the creation of creation; yes, even we Kmtyw americans and our great cultural confusions. having been in a state of warfare for hundreds of years, warfare centering on the meta-issue of culture as an total system of living, we have now reached a point in the battle where we no longer need any euromerican form of culture. all of our traditions have been maintained to such a degree that we can reform ourselves as a global nation, with a collective (though infinitely diverse) culture; this is possible upon the cultivation of our common cultural paradigm, which has always been the prime education system maintaining our existence since the beginning of the beginning. so-called modern science and techonology is light years behind, indefinitely inferior to our traditional Kmtyw, spirtual/root-centered technology and science; our ancestors were travelling to different planets and galaxies for centuries before even the pyramids were built....
 
in truth, it is a non-issue of what the role of whites are in Kmtyw Spiritual Systems, it is a non-issue of what the role of whites are in the World. we need to stop worrying about them, what they do, why they do, and how they do. we gave them everything they have, we taught them everything they know. we know them better then they know themselves. we must, from now on, only be concerned with US, with the those who truthfully and rightfully maintain and sustain the Black Cultural Tradition. we can acknowledge and commune with hindus and buddhists, even christians and muslims--BUT only as long as they all acknowledge the process of their evolutions, coming from the Black Root, and accordingly seek to rectify and return to balance the corruptions and unbalanced deviations from the Root. white folk, incan folk, navajo folk, celtic folk, malaysian folk, tibetan folk; all humans may be healed, and may follow the spiritual traditions of Kmt, but must do so in respect to their birth-culture, and in respect to their individual family lineage. orisa say that no white person will be babalawo, but orisa also say that not every black person will be babalawo, either.
 
all roles are made evident and clear when we follow our spiritual systems properly, and communicate effectively with the Ancestors and the Divine Order. seeking and understanding the guidance of the Ancestors and the Divine will ensure that our behaviors and actions are in line with truth and wisdom. adhering to the spiritual methods as Divinely prescribed will ultimately lead to our total collective redemption on this planet.
 
one
love
family
--->kks

[Haki Ammi]

Give thanks,
 
I certainly appreciate this.  If I may give one of my experiences of which I must be able to properly do a Cultural check of somethings that are going on in the Kmtyw Spiritual traditions.  Just recently while in Baltimore there was what I thought going to be a Kmtyw Spiritual event.  Unfortunately, A eureurasiaan Yoruba Priest showed up with her Black Dike/Homo/White Sex Offender Lover/Wife.  That is right, you heard this correctly.  In the Baltimore/D.C./New York/East Coast there are two Lesbian woman that are now being trained in the Akan tradition.  That is right known overweight, lesbian, interracial couple that have been inducted into the Yoruba System and now the Akan system were at an event sponsored by another Akan Priest that I have been friends with for years.  This event was attended by Bro. Baruti as well as the Elder Kambons.  I have personally seen these freaks of nature at several general events though never at an Akom.  They generally do not come where they are not accepted.  I was told by the Priest sista's associates that I was a "Nationalists" and did not understand Spirituality".  This "Priests" in the Akan tradition did not see any contradictions in her event and these perverts.  They were not the only Homo's present either.  This Priest has a slew of Homo support that supports her business as she says.  I have to put this out there.  This Priests was a good friend of mine though she is captured and this was the last straw.  Homo's buying your goods is one thing, though showing up at Akoms, dancing with Euro's and Homo's should not be accepted.  Also, there was a known stripper at this event.  An Afro-Centric Stripper.  With this being the case I surmissed sp.  that she is a Lesbian as well and feel comfortable with her freakish self.  They have invaded the Akan tradition.  Now no one can tell the difference.  The Akan tradition has been poisoned and they have landed and invaded.  Someone must stand up to this direct assault and the Final White Sex Assualt against Kmtyw people's traditions.  eureurasiaans, Homo's, Strippers, Known/Openly LGBT should never be accepted at an Spiritual event.  This so called Priest actually thought that I had no right to even suggest.  This is why I now believe deep in my heart that she is an undercover Lesbian.  This sista worked to not allow for Baruti and the Kambon's to have books set up.  Now I realize why?  With the Gay Pride Week that both Baruti and the Kambon's were in town during the same week this Akan Spiritual day was an extension of the Gay Pride week.  Just as we have marches for instance the Gay Prider's were exalted and pumped and wanted to hang out their freakishness.  They were excited and came the hell out like freaks that they are.  They took over the event and had rainbows.  
The question is why would a Priests uphold these i.e. Euro's and Homo's  The one that trained these Lesbians is a Continental Kmtyw that needs money.  We will sell our souls for a dollar.  Both of these Priests must repent from their sickness and freakishness.  Stop training YT's if not I'm going to have to advise persons that go through training and the general population as more and more continue to succumb to Homo-sexuality to begin to question a "Priests".  If you see a Priests it may begin to seem as though they are more than likely a Lesbian than not.  Until I see otherwise I'm going to think it's about 50/50.  I wouldn't let any of the watoto's around these freaks.

[pain]

^^^ Sounds like you're talking about the same person Obadele mentioned earlier in this thread.

And with that, I have another question.

Now I already kow that if one is a priest/ priestess and one begins to exhibit behavior that goes against the Abosom that they will simply leave even if that person either pretends that the Abosom are still with them or if some other spirit is there with them deceiving them.

What I want to know though is if there are any rules among the priests/ priestesses/ elders and so on about the behavior of a priest/ priestess AFTER they have been initiated as such. Do they revoke priesthoods? Who were the people that initiated this woman ( the Ghanaian born), do they know about this and if so then what has been their response?

[Haki Ammi]

Yes Pain,
 
     That is the same YT and she is now being trained by Nsia.  I would say Nana though just as some recieve that Abosom they should be defrocked or dethrowned from their Priesthood.

[bigrootz]

I try to judge folks on an individual basis. But, I am a product of the Diaspora. A child of Kmt who has gone through a hell of a journey in this hell/babylon of a place. I am a survivor of this mess.  I have wounds and scars that make me remember what it is that they have done to me. I see it everyday.  We as Kmtyw's who are awakened to who we are strive to gain back all that they have taken from us.  I hate to see them wrapped up into Kmtyw culture. I am a drummer (guinea style) and an artist who has been given the gifts to bring spirit out through music and my craft. I am also initiated into Kmtyw spiritual systems. I have recently found out that my connection to Kmtyw traditional systems runs deep in my family through my grandmother who was into hoodoo in Alabama. I hate to see them into the things that were lost to us for some time because of them.  Espeacially into OUR Kmtyw spiritual systems.  I can't control it because some people will sell anything for the right price.  But, in essence, I don't like it.

[Kwasi]

Names !!!!:sniper:

[Haki Ammi]

Didn't understand Kwesi?  Did you want to know who?  Please be more specific if you were speaking with me.